Male victims of female narcissistic partners have a harder path to walk (than female victims) on the road to narcissist abuse recovery and here’s how I came to this conclusion: In making this website, I take great pains in trying to address those topics related to narcissism that weigh the most heavily on the minds of my readers. To do this, I study the analytical data and statistics of the website itself on almost a daily basis. This data provides me with the gender of visitors, the demographics, the keyword search terms that visitors use, and a whole host of additional information. From the very beginning, I noticed something very interesting – and shocking – about the gender of my readers: a good portion were male. And I’m not talking just a small percentage. I’m talking a percentage big enough that for me not to address the specific issue of male victims of female narcissist abuse would be not only unfair but completely hypocritical.
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So, that being said, I’ve written the following personal letter to all male victims who endure narcissist abuse at the hands of a female narcissist…all those males victims that visit numerous websites (including mine) looking for support on the subject of female narcissist partners, narcissist abuse, and narcissist recovery and who typically find nothing that speaks to them.
To Male Victims of Female Narcissist Abusers:
First, let me apologize on behalf of all female victims, website bloggers, and authors of books on narcissism for perhaps the biggest “slap-in-the-face” we send to the male victim of narcissist abuse: the constant referral to the narcissistic partner as he and him. Although I do make a disclaimer as to this reference in my books and have, in fact, written a book (When Evil Is a Pretty Face) that specifically addresses the female narcissistic partner, it still must be painfully annoying and I’m sorry for that. Now, unfortunately, having said that, it’s doubtful that, at least online, this reference to the male gender will change anytime soon. The fact is that, at least for me, it’s simply easier to refer to all narcissists as he since 1) the majority of victims who speak out on the topic are indeed female and have suffered abuse at the hands of male narcissists, and 2) most narcissists, sociopaths, and psychopaths happen to be male, and 3) I speak from my own experience as a female victim. So, I hope you can forgive and see past all that when seeking comfort for your own abuse on my website and others. I, for one, can promise you that the reference isn’t personal.
Second, let me say that, after reading through letters and forum posts both on my site and on other sites from male victims, I get the sneaking suspicion that female narcissists, though smaller in number than their male counterparts, might very well be the leaders in the evil department – and there ‘s a logical reason why. Considering that women, as a whole, can be fairly cunning, imagine how sneaky a narcissistic female can be! Male narcissists (MN), even while tormenting the female victim, still have to worry about maintaining the proper image in the global arena (i.e. outside world). Female narcissists (FN), on the other hand, are keenly aware that females in general pull in far more sympathy from outsiders than even the most victimized male and so the load for the FN is much lighter. FNs, without the extra workload of having to instantly smooze anyone and everyone who might sympathize with their victim, may very well be naturally inclined to do the more evil of narcissistic deeds – whatever that may be. Knowing how narcissists think, I can easily imagine an FN taunting a male partner with “Go ahead! Tell everyone that I vanished for six weeks and you caught me with someone else. I don’t care! All I have to do is cry a few tears and I’ll have the whole world believing that you are just a lazy, abusive dog and that I’m the victim! ” You get my point. There are other reasons that lend themselves to the fact that female narcissists may be nastier and I promise to address this in future articles. For now, I want you to know that I do “get it”.
I must say that I’m very proud of the fact that when I do read letters/comments from male victims, the female victims on these sites step up to the challenge of being supportive. The truth is that I think most female victims feel as I do – that male victims are very isolated in this mess (as a whole) and do not have a whole lot of male-exclusive “victim” clubs to run to for support. Another truth is that, for the most part, female victims know that male narcissists – even though there are millions walking the planet – do not, exclusively, speak for the male population. We want to know that there are good guys out there! We want to know that the male gender can actually experience the heartbreak that we feel – that it’s actually possible. You won’t find female victims accusing you of whining, I’ll guarantee that. At the peak of our suffering, male victims are our only proof we have that good men even exist anymore! So, we want to hear from you! We want you to join the sisterhood!
My point in all of this is that I encourage you – the male victim of a narcissistic partner – to seek support among us. We are here to listen and to help. Narc abuse is unique in its passive-aggressive evilness. We know that you suffer through silent treatments and deliberate acts of chaos and gas lighting and co-dependency and all the types of manipulation that we suffer through. As I said before, we may even be inclined to believe that your specific degree of suffering is a tad worse. As for me, I definitely acknowledge the credit you deserve for putting up with the inevitable reference to narcissists as male because that is unlikely to change. This must always be a point of contention and the fact that male victims, for lack of a better place to go, even dare to brave the all-female forums to share your grief is admirable. Understand that female victims appreciate this fact and will recognize your sincerity.
To everyone, with the pain of a narcissistic discard often so indescribable that we feel nothing but isolation, all victims – male and female – are welcome on this website. Together, we can spread the word about narcissism, lighten the burden for victims who follow us, and hopefully get a handle on the madness.
Your friend,
Zari
Johnny
April 11, 2017 at 2:47 amAfter interacting with my gf for 9 months, I kind of thinking her as a narcissist. However, I would like you to confirm my thought. The followings are factual description of her behavior. She married twice & had about 10 bf.
(1) Even I am highly educated (a Phd in business), she kept on telling me I am only book smart & then perform shortcoming analysis on me almost on daily basis. She kept on telling me she is much smarter than me.
(2) About 70% of our conversation centered on how good her ex bf are. They are rich, handsome, tall, caring …. and when I compared to them, I am really nothing (Still didn’t understand if I am that bad, why she is with me?)
(3) She spent long long time look into the mirror everyday and talked to herself how pretty she is (I lived with her)
(4) She seems not taking my interest into account. About 50% of my income was siphoned to her & she keeps on buying this & that without considering my affordability.
(5) One horrible thing I found out is she seems not genuinely love me. She can be caring & loving at this moment and cold and emotionless the next moment. I think she can suddenly love a stranger if he can provide her with what she wants especially material benefits
(6) She did not work since 32 (now 48) and her major income is derived from contributions from her ex and my current income.
(7) She is very manipulative and basically will disapprove what I chose, my opinions and what I appreciate. I found that when I tell her this is what I am going to do, she will think of something else and force me to follow her.
(8) She is a very very flirtatious woman & attracted a lot of guys to help her running errands. She is so crave for male attention that if I am working & did not give enough attention to her, she will find a guy to entertain her. Once a fortune teller visit her house and she chatted with him for 8 hours alone and even cooked dinner for him despite she is a total stranger. She jokingly suggest that I should allow her one time infidelity. She has an ex bf in UK and recently he came to visit her and she tried to hide our relationship from him. I kind of suspect she has parallel relationship.
(9) She has no woman friends & 90% people surrounding her is guy. Even she is not interested in guys approaching her, she took pride of attracting male to pursue her, running errands for her & even buy gift for her.
(10) I am married and my wife is living overseas (I know I am very immoral). She pressured me constantly to divorce and live permanently with her. However, she seems not interested to marry me after my divorce.
You may wonder why I did not leave. I really love her & felt pain if I leave her. Now I want to confirm if she is a narcissist so that I have greater courage to leave her.
Zari Ballard
April 25, 2017 at 3:09 pmHi Johnny,
My thinking is all you have to do is re-read your post and you will see that leaving her is a no-brainer. Giving her a “narcissist” label shouldn’t make a difference. The behaviors aren’t going to go anywhere. If I told you I didn’t think that she was a narcissist, would you then feel MORE compelled to stay with her? Honestly, she certainly has narcissistic behaviors and maybe she is even a gold-digging sociopath. The fact that she surrounds herself with other men and boyfriends…why do you even want that? What about her could be so attractive when she so obviously takes advantage of any guy that throws a smile her way? It will never stop so you should just let her go, my friend.
Zari:)
Grant
May 5, 2017 at 12:45 pmI met my lovely narc at the end of October, and, fortunately, managed to escape from that unhealthy relationship by the middle of February. Since it wasn’t long, there are not significant damages, and I need no recovery whatsoever.
Moreover, I had no idea of all these sorts of predators till a few days ago, and my “discovery” was simply amazing because I got the key for all the questions that remained unanswered. Everything that seemed to be strange and irrational become crystal clear, and all her illogical outbursts got their logic.
Although the fact that I had no idea of terminology, I saw who I am dealing with, and there wouldn’t be happy-end whatsoever. That was evident, but I jumped in the abyss, and if the time machine sent me to that day, I would do it again, without an even single doubt.
I knew that she was far from a “good girl,” and I was ready for that, but since the evil always hiding in details, there is a huge difference between a random bitch and motivated narc. Even if they have some similar behaviors, their motivations are critically different, and that was the trap for me.
If I knew what she is eager for, I could handle that relationship much easier. But and since there no money or anything else was involved, she easily bought me with the “pure” emotions, which I even now still doubted whether was they real or faked.
There was zero of rocket science in her lies, calculating, figuring out, etc. , and once I even told her: “Darling, you have two types of your lie only – evident and ridiculous.”. But when it comes to emotions, she wasn’t just great – she was superior, or whatever most perfect form could be in this case.
We met and proceeded under circumstances that make this alliance barely possible, and I was sure that there should be something that makes her be with me. I was trying to analyze what it could be and didn’t found anything but emotions and sex.
Unfortunately, I didn’t know that I have to observe the things from the perspective of a psychopath. Now I know what exactly was there and what I was for her – a perfect source of supply.
I still have the very first chat history and the other one about a month later. I read it again yesterday, and it’s just unbelievable, how different could be seen even some very nice things.
The entire idealization process can be observed in those two chats. How she collected, and how easy I gave the information that she badly needs. There are a bit of everything – love-bombing, very first try of aggression, faked-future, non-answering my questions, lowering the expectations, etc. But all those things are hard to be seen without the master key – a perspective of psychopath mind.
One of my friends are also kind of narc, and I knew that what he called “friendship” is something else, which is probably his supply.
One day he invited me to dinner at his house, and I went there with my lovely narc. Usually, he pays zero interest to my ladies, but that time was entirely different – they attached immediately, and he pays to her that much attention that I have never seen he paid to anyone else. But it wasn’t even flirt, and now I know what it was – two predators and one pray, Discovery Channel at its best. After that dinner, my attitude to friend dramatically changed and now it’s on the “No contact” stage.
Well, everything has a two side. My lovely narc helped me to get out of another toxic relationship, which was already long and shouldn’t end anytime soon. She was an adamant trigger at that time.
Zari Ballard
May 8, 2017 at 1:22 pmGrant wrote…I knew that she was far from a “good girl,” and I was ready for that, but since the evil always hiding in details, there is a huge difference between a random bitch and motivated narc. Even if they have some similar behaviors, their motivations are critically different…excellent analysis (I get it!)
Thanks for sharing, Grant! I’m grateful that you didn’t have to hang in the narcissistic nightmare for too long although you sure seem to have grasped the dynamic of this very unique situation. The female narc is particularly awful simply because society enables her to behave (and DISTORT) certain “female” ways that are taken for granted. For the motivated narc, this is like a free pass to do some very, very bad things. I love the little side story about the interaction between her and your other narc friend over dinner…how it was not exactly flirtatious but almost like two predators mentally connecting on a very personal level for mutually nefarious unspoken reasons (how’s THAT for a description – haha!). I found that very interesting…
So, getting out of that relationship allowed you to kill two birds with one stone. Good for you! We don’t usually get a bonus gift with these break-ups so it’s always awesome to see it happen. If you ever get a chance, read my book When Evil Is a Pretty Face just for the hell of it. You’ll see your story on every single page.
Write anytime…love your insight!
Zari xo
Grant
May 8, 2017 at 9:55 pmThank you, Zari, for reading and understanding. I don’t think the entire story would be interesting, but I will write about most interesting parts.
KC
April 3, 2017 at 1:50 pmHi Zari,
I thought I’d share my story. I’m in a predicament where the false story created by my narcissist ex wife is much more believable than the truth.
I am a guy who was married to a monster malignant narcissist for 20 years. I don’t know how I managed to survive that long without blowing my brains out. It was 20 years of absolute torture and mental anguish. She used every manipulative technique in the book against me to isolate me from my family and friends, and to make me feel like a stupid, worthless, insane piece of crap—yet I didn’t think I could live without her.
The first thing she did not long after we were married was to seize control of our finances. Before long, I had to ask permission to buy a $2 fishing lure, while she could pick up the tab for her entire large extended family if we went out to eat at a fancy restaurant. Before the days of the internet, she would hide bills around the house so that I had no idea where we stood financially, and she refused to include me. After the internet, she withheld passwords so I was always in the dark.
She was insanely violent and would beat the hell out of me over the most minor disagreement. I would hold her back to keep her from killing me—then she would show the bruises on her wrists from my defending myself to her family and friends and claim that I was beating her. Her entire family believed everything she said as gospel truth and interfered constantly—always taking her side. I had no one who would ever take my side. She played the victim role very well.
She became enmeshed with our daughter soon after birth, and went on to commit covert emotional incest with her—essentially treating her as her spouse instead of me. She and my daughter were best friends from the time she was a child. She encouraged my daughter to be disrespectful to me and turned her against me and my family. I was powerless to do anything about it. If my daughter was disrespectful to me and needed discipline, my wife would jump between me and my daughter and would not allow me to do anything. She would then (in front of my daughter) ask me what I did to make my daughter act disrespectful to me and tell me to apologize to her. If I came home late from work and she and my daughter were waiting so we could go out to eat, she would tell my daughter, “Daddy doesn’t want you to eat.” She essentially brainwashed my daughter to hate me from the time she was a baby.
Due to her smear tactics, her entire family and her friends saw my ex as a timid little angel who could do no wrong, and saw me as an abusive monster. I was completely alone and had nobody to take my side. I was so tired of fighting an unwinnable nonsensical battle, that I emotionally withdrew—causing my daughter to hate me even more, feeling emotionally abandoned.
This monster was a master not only at gaslighting, but at projection. She was insanely jealous of my mom and did everything possible to make my mom feel unwelcome. I became afraid to even talk to my mom out of fear of having to answer to my wife, and at one point went close to a year without even talking to her. On the flip side, my wife couldn’t go to the bathroom without her domineering mother’s approval, and her mom would interfere and even physically attack me if I disagreed with my wife about something. Virtually every time my wife and I got into an argument, she would somehow manage to bring my mom’s name into it and tell me that I was “up my mother’s butt” even though I never saw her nor spoke with her. She projected her insane traits upon me—and my daughter (who is now 25) is completely blind to it and blames me for everything that went wrong with our family. She actually says that I was the narcissist.
At one point when my daughter was in her early teens, she began cutting herself. I begged my wife to do family-system counseling with all three of us to get to the root of the problem—but she would have no part of it because she didn’t want to address the real issue—she just wanted to blame everything on me. Somehow, she and my daughter ended up seeing a counselor together without me, and were able to convince the counselor that I was dangerous, and that the two of them needed to stay in a safehouse to be protected from me (They never did go to a safehouse). It was SO backwards. I had my back against the wall—was absolutely impotent, powerless, completely dominated, alone, hopeless, and oppressed, yet she was somehow able to paint herself as the victim and me a dangerous violent person.
Though I remained faithful and never even once considered cheating on her throughout those 20 years of hell, the coping mechanism I fell into was sexual addiction—primarily pornography. I guess it was the only way I could feel some sense of power in a world where I was completely dominated by women.
After 20 years of marriage, 7 years ago, she cheated on me with her ex boyfriend, secretly introduced my daughter to him, then ran off 1000 miles away (taking my daughter with her) to marry him—somehow acting as if she were on the moral high ground. I guess he probably fed her narcissistic needs with less resistance than me. Next to trusting in Christ as my Savior, that monster getting out of my life is the best thing that ever happened to me. For the first time in my life, I felt like an adult and developed self esteem.
Though I was miserable for those 20 years in hell, I did not understand what was happening to me. I didn’t even know what a narcissist was. It wasn’t until after she left that I put 2 + 2 together and realized what had happened.
About 2 years after my divorce, I remarried and I now have a son. About 2 years into this second marriage, things started to head south. My second wife was not a narcissist—just a very spoiled and selfish person. She seized control of our finances, leaving me completely broke while she and her 2 spoiled daughters lived high on the hog. When I tried to address the issue with her, she refused to talk—For a moment, I felt like I was trapped—slipping back int the same despair I felt during my first marriage. I honestly believe I became temporarily insane, and one day I snapped. I turned to sexual addiction as a coping mechanism—but this time, I attempted to do something illegal and got caught in the act. This led to my divorce, my having only supervised visitation with my son (though it had nothing to do with him), and my being on deferred adjudication for a felony (though not a registrable sex offense). This was SO completely out of character for me.
I immediately repented for my actions, did everything possible to make things right with my now new ex-wife, and got help through Christian counseling and several Christ-centered programs. I’ve come a long way in the past few years. I no longer struggle with sexual addiction. I have truly walked a good walk for nearly 3 years now.
I recently felt the time had come for me to start dating again. I setup an account with an online dating site and found one very special, beautiful girl who shared the same faith and moral values as me. We hit it off really well and everything was very promising—except she had a lot of trust issues from her past and could sense that I was holding something back from her. Trying to be transparent and do the right thing, I dropped the nuke on her and told her the entire story of what I had done and that I was on probation. She said she needed time to process everything and pray about whether or not to proceed with our relationship. She’s been flip-flopping about whether or not to proceed because she likes me, but she’s hung up on why my daughter doesn’t talk to me and why I only have supervised visitation with my son—suspecting sexual abuse.
There was no sexual abuse. My daughter doesn’t talk to me due to the brainwashing she received from her narcissist mother, and I only have supervised visitation with my son because I committed a criminal offense—which had absolutely nothing to do with him—and my ex had a good lawyer.
I opened a dialog with my daughter last week, asking her to forgive me for emotionally abandoning her. She can’t seem to separate her feelings from her mom’s, and wants me to apologize to her narcissist mom and ask for her forgiveness for things that I not only did not do—but for things she actually did to me!
Just imagine trying to explain all of this to this girl I’d been seeing—the most special someone I’ve ever met—someone I may like to spend the rest of my life with— the story of how a monster narcissist pathological liar projected her traits upon me and that my daughter believes her lies. My story sounds like complete BS—especially in light of my screwing up and committing a crime. If someone told this story to me, I would not believe it. The false narrative created by this narcissist monster is much more believable than the truth. The truth sounds like a completely made-up story—like I’m just blaming everything on her.
I was supposed to have dinner with this girl I’d been seeing and talk one night last week but she cancelled at the last minute. I doubt I’ll ever hear from her again.
If asked, I believe my daughter would tell her that I never sexually abused her, but she has so much anger toward me—both because of my emotionally abandoning her as well as from the brainwashing she received from my first wife—that she would probably sabotage my relationship with this girl.
Seven years after this monster left me, she still holds a grip on my life. I’m once again in a no-win situation due to her. To this day, though I’ve blocked her on social media, I still see that at least once a month, she still views my LinkedIn profile snooping on me.
Now, I feel worthless again. I have a story that nobody on earth will believe—plus I now have a criminal record on top of it. I’m stuck in a crappy job and live with a friend because I can’t pass a background check. I’m a painfully honest, decent, trustworthy guy and know I would be a great husband to a girl who deserves to be treated like a queen—but I don’t even feel like making the effort to reach out to anyone on one of the dating websites because after being shot me down by this special girl, I feel like there is no hope.
I can only imagine how much different my life would have turned out had I never met this monster.
I know I’m sane. I know my story is absolutely true. I know absolutely nobody on earth will believe me.
Zari Ballard
April 14, 2017 at 2:26 pmHi KC,
Well, it is a hell of a story and it reads like a novel…have you ever considered writing a book? I did and it changed my whole life, personally, spiritually, and – especially – financially. You’re an excellent writer…think about it.
Anyway, I have no reason to NOT believe you and the truth is that your story, for a man who was involved with a narcissist, does not sound atypical. I’m not exactly sure how the second woman was able to take over the finances AGAIN but I imagine it happens and the sexual addiction – while I appreciate your honesty – does detract from the obvious narcissist abuse. Nonetheless, it happened and the truth is that for a long time you WILL have to explain what has happened to (not just anyone) but anyone who you might care about.
Here’s what I suggest: copy your post and keep it handy in case one day you have to explain. Seriously, if I were a girl who was kinda involved and the guy handed it to me, I would at least read it and all the way through. It reads that good:) Now, whether they stay or not, that’s the hard part and who can say but at least you will have explained it (by them reading it) with clarity. When we try to explain something that complicated by speaking, the words NEVER come out right and the people listening, while having good intention, will always hear selectively. All a person would hear would be “sex addiction” or “felony” and so forth. So, again, I read you story…I “get it”…and I suggest you copy paste the above post, print it out, and keep a copy hidden in a drawer for when the time comes.
Keep on the right track, brother, even when the journey seems the darkest. In due time, the light catches up with you to guide the way. I promise.
God Bless!
Zari xo
Richard Zabransky
March 22, 2017 at 1:13 pmHi Zari,
I have been thru narcissistic abuse with many men in my life. The last 2 were my “a ha” moment when I finally realized what was going on, and I am not crazy. Throughout it all for 25 years, I have had a female friend. I will call her “Bernice”. She is a survivor of horrific narc abuse…broken teeth, beatings, cycling in and out, all of it.
We are giving each other silent treatment now. I am angry with her because she loves to enjoy life…travel, road trips, movies, etc……provided it is with some narc, not me. This has been a sore spot with me the entire time.
Last week she suggested a little road trip “when I get back” from out of town. So I’m back and friday morning I ask her what time she wants to leave. She argues that she never said “friday” and said “I would never give you a specific day”. So I say when do you want? She says Sunday. I say ok, I have church commitment, meet me at 11:30. She says no way! That is way too late!….I say forget it and go no contact.
We know each other better than anyone else, butI am sick of this. I am not worth her time. I know the dangers and brain damage caused by gas lighting and I think she is gas lighting me and future faking. She always talks about how great it will be when we both retire. I always thought she was saving me from my sick narcs but now I wonder if she is part of the reason I am still stuck. I am seeing signs of narcissism in different areas of my life, and it makes me so sick, I just want to clean house.
Do you have any thoughts for me? Thanks.
Richard
Zari Ballard
April 3, 2017 at 2:20 amHi Richard,
Look, you said it best…I want to clean house. That is what you must do, my friend. It would be one thing if you felt your friendship was being reciprocated but it’s not. “Bernice” has lived a cycle of abuse that, for whatever reason, she is addicted to but that doesn’t mean that she has to treat you badly or that you have to stick around. Who wants to make plans with someone only to be told that they were never made? It sounds to me that she is fairly un-pleasable and I don’t know about you but I don’t think we need to work that hard in our friendships. Damn – it’s hard enough to handle this type of weird rejection in a “romantic” relationship! You deserve better!
So, my answer to you is yes, clean house! That is good advice for all of us. Stick with no contact and simply do not be around when she reappears. I too believe that a friend like this can hold us back…you don’t have to accept it. Life is too short for all this crap. Go forth and shine…you deserve all the happiness in the world!
Zari xo
AG
March 15, 2017 at 4:42 amMy boyfriend is a victim of a female narcissist. And that is on top of sexual abuse as a pre-teen. He feels tormented by the fact that his children have been pitted against him. He has four children and none of them will speak to him. He gets video calls from his youngest (13) daughter on facebook and the background is black and they won’t speak. I suspect this is his soon-to-be-ex-wife (STBEW) using his daughter’s phone. He left his abusive STBE nearly 3 years ago. He is terrified to go to court because he knows how they give preferential treatment to the female and she is a master at playing the victim. Even though their children witnessed what he was going through, she played the victim in all of this and now they will not speak to him. His two middle children will contact him occasionally, but usually only when something is needed. The oldest and youngest won’t contact him at all. I have been through a messy divorce myself and finally got the courage to leave my narcissist ex back in 2012, but he did the same thing to 2 of our children, my two boys. They will not speak to me to this day (21 and 18). I met my boyfriend nearly 3 years ago when he was in the process of leaving his abuser. We bonded immediately because of what we had both been through. As much pain as I still have at the loss of my children (as they want nothing to do with me), he seems to be having a much more difficult time at recovery. He feels tormented. In the beginning of our relationship he felt free to love again, it felt good to love again and be loved. He began to seek out God again (he is a convicted man which is making this much harder for him to face – that he loves someone other than his narcissist STBEW). He began to feel like a man again. He started having direction and knowing what he wanted. That is… until she stepped in and stripped that away. She then turned to religious abuse and began laying the guilt trip on him trying to ruin the peace he had begun to find. She guilt tripped him and began turning his children against him by playing the victim. It all became about him leaving them for another woman (the marriage was already essentially over due to her abuse, neglect, and extra marital affair). She has fabricated events saying I have sent her pictures of the two of us together when I did no such thing. She has harassed me with repeated phone calls to the point I had to get an app on my phone that would uncover the phone calling me. It was her. But still she tried to say it was her daughter, trying to avoid responsibility. When I had finally had enough, I sent her a text one day with him beside me and she IMMEDIATELY (was definitely waiting for me to do something so she could once again play the victim) sent him a text turning tables saying I was harassing her. I am seeing a counselor because of what I have been through. I have confided in him about my boyfriend and he told me that you cannot apply logic to an illogical situation. Narcissists do not act logically and to try and deal with them logically, is useless and frustrating. My boyfriend is in so much pain and she just keeps trying to torment him by using his daughter’s account so she still doesn’t have to take responsibility. She calls at all hours on her daughter’s account and messages him. There seems to be a pattern. She will text him or try to call him, he won’t answer her. So then he will get messages on his daughter’s facebook messenger and phone calls from the same. Only they will not show their face and will not speak. Messing with his head. We will be video chatting and they will be able to see he is on another call and she will then start sending him messages calling him a sinner and me a whore. She is sick. HE isn’t positive its his STBEW and thinks it could be his daughter as she is so much like her mother. I have to think that a 13 year old girl wouldn’t do such things. These are the actions more of a scorned woman. He has not gotten a divorce yet, because there is no reasoning with her and he cannot afford a lengthy drawn out court battle. He was hoping that she would begin to move on and sometimes we begin to think she has, but then here come the harassing calls and texts again. I sometimes wonder if she finds another victim for a short while, but when they discover how she is they end it quickly and then she is back trying to make his life miserable. He feels helpless and is trying to deal with so much and I feel frustrated as I want to be able to move forward in our relationship, but we are still standing in this knee deep.
How does a male victim of narcissism find a way to move on? How do they strip the abuser of the control? He tends to prefer just to ignore her which works for a while, but she finds her ways. He wants to be able to have civil conversation with her with respect to the kids, but I am of the notion that it will never be possible. How do we find a way to move on from here? Do two victims of former narcissistic partners and sexual abuse and abandonment have hope of being in a successful relationship? Your advice would be appreciated.
Zari Ballard
March 18, 2017 at 6:37 pmHi AG,
Okay, now I’m not saying that everything you described about your boyfriend’s ex isn’t true, but you seem to be of the opinion that this guy has done nothing wrong and I’m not so sure if I believe this. First of all, if he really wanted to be divorced from this woman, he would be. There is a reason why he isn’t moving forward with it. If all or some of the children are under eighteen, then taking this to court would obligate him to pay child support and at the same time give him some sort of visitation. Whether they are speaking to him or not, they would have to spend time with their dad. Again, if he really cared about his kids and seeing them and if he REALLY wants away from this woman once and for all, he would grow some balls and get it done. He would FIND the money. I don’t believe his situation is the same as yours.
You said something interesting that you should think about….that it appears to you that she is acting like a woman scorned. Why do you think that is? Now I don’t know the whole story, of course, but according to you, he left her three years ago. Three years ago! What has he been doing for three years? You say he is a “convicted” man (I assume you mean “Godly” by this) who has a hard time accepting that he loves someone besides his ex? Really? And he’s been separated for three years? So, for three years, he hasn’t seen his children or made a legal move to do so even though going to court would secure his spot as their father? And apparently he’s “terrified” of his ex but not so terrified that he wouldn’t move out three years ago and move on with HIS own life? I can’t help it – the story just seems “off”. There’s just HAS to be reason why, after three long years, that this woman – as horrible as she may be – is acting as if she’s been “scorned”. Even a narcissistic female has her limits there. And it is the narcissistic female who usually does the kicking out. Could it be she behaves this way because this guy is still her husband and he isn’t even making a move towards a divorce? You, as his girlfriend, only knows what is happening from what HE tells you.
I am also wary of any guy who allows his girlfriend to be all involved with this…to allow you to get into a text war with her while he sits beside you. It’s weird, it just is. Stop getting involved and tell him to handle his own affairs. There’s a reason why she is behaving this way after three years. My thinking is that he’s only “tormented” by her when it’s convenient…otherwise he’d much rather give her the silent treatment so she can go nuts. Her behavior seems, to me, very reactionary. Do you live with this guy…and I only ask this because of the patterns I am seeing. Given how she reacts with him (as if they are technically “still” together), during those times that she is fairly quiet, to me, it is more logical to think that he is playing sweet to her then, maybe even being with her, stringing her along at that time, than to think that she is busy with another guy. When suddenly she rages, you gotta wonder if he didn’t suddenly go silent and now she’s pissed which would be normal. There’s something called triangulation and he may just be doing it with her AND you to keep both of you on the hook. Three years and he’s still TERRIFIED? You wanted advice and I’m giving it…you need to sit back and take a good look at this guy’s game.
Finally, since you have had unfortunate issues in your life, I am grateful that you are in therapy but please don’t make your sessions about what the wife is doing to you. She’s just reacting. You truly shouldn’t even be involved at all…this is about him and her. He should be PROTECTING you from it. You need to think about his story. What guy video chats with his girlfriend but leaves his settings open so that his wife and children can see that he’s chatting and start messaging? Think about that. He’s not getting a divorce and I don’t think he intends to….I hope I’m wrong for your sake but you need to look past all his words, words, stories of “my ex is so awful” and “I’m a victim”, words, words and see what his ACTIONS really are.
Good luck to you, sister!
Zari:)
Kevin Fichtler
February 10, 2017 at 12:42 amOut of all the evil things my ex-narcissist has done to me, the one thing I have the most trouble with is the alienation of my four kids. Everything else I can learn, grow and heal from. But alienation is the one thing that never goes away. When we started the divorce, she kept my oldest and youngest from me. Most likely telling them untrue things about me to cause them to hate me. In a mediation session with my oldest, he told cousellor and I that his mother told him that for his first Christmas, I said we shouldn’t get him anything. He was so angry about this, even when I denied saying it, and despite this was just heresay from his mother, that was enough for him to hate me. Throughout much of the divorce, my two middle sons stood by me. That is until two years ago. I even told my two sons that my ex would one day create an incident where everyone would end up hating me. Their response… “That will never happen, you’re the best dad ever!”. So all four of my kids have had no contact with me or anyone from my side of the family for coming up to two years. And I am still paying support for kids that want nothing to do with me. This year they will be 18, 19, 20 & 24. Words cannot begin to describe what that feels like. I have done a lot of work trying to heal from this, but it never really goes away.
Zari Ballard
February 13, 2017 at 6:07 pmHi Kevin,
I am so sorry for your situation! First, I have to ask WHY you are still paying support for adult children??? If you are doing this out of the kindness of your heart…stop immediately. Your legal obligation should be done. You can’t buy their love. Second, I understand that this is very painful but you know that you’ve done nothing wrong. At some point, and who knows when, they WILL see this for what it is. Something will happen that will turn the tides and it will be up to you if you will be there for them. What this woman has done and said relative to the children is unforgivable but it is also unforgivable that four grown adults would still be falling for the ruse. It is what it is and you must move on despite the pain of it all. You have to salvage the rest of your life and you DO deserve to be happy. Hopefully, the two middle sons will come to their senses since they showed support for you during the divorce.
But the money part really bothers me. You say… And I am still paying support for kids that want nothing to do with me. . I hope you are speaking of the one who is turning 18, right? And as soon as he turns 18, that needs to stop. None of them deserve a dime of your money ever again.
Stays strong, brother!
Zari xo
how witty
February 14, 2017 at 10:03 pmParents of adult children can be ordered to pay child support. That can be due to the adult child being a college student, having a disability, or the parent owing back child support. If the parent owes arrears, then they aren’t necessarily paying for the benefit of the child, but paying interest to the state.
So if a man is cut in half by the court, your advice is for him to just carry on with half of what he’s earned for the rest of his life?
Is it even worth the risk of being let down to hope that someone who wants nothing to do with you will magically come back into your life for the better?
I know that some children grow up with a lot of resentment toward a parent who wasn’t there. These kids are really impressionable. Sometimes, when the court and the mother are against you, there’s nothing a guy can do about it. These psycho women will do anything, including poison children with lies, just to keep up the facade that they are the perfect victim. It’s not them that suffers from isolation and/or poverty, but the men who are ripped apart by the lies and fines.
Zari Ballard
February 17, 2017 at 10:49 pmWhy don’t you reply directly to the person that you are referring to and give them advice…the person who made the post? I understand all about the courts and how some guys get the raw end of the deal as I’ve already explained to you. I also know about arrears because my ex-husband had to pay arrears until my son was 24. So, you are not telling me anything I don’t know. I’m basing my response on HIS story and he doesn’t say anything about being behind. My hope for him is that he be able to continue on with his life…what more can he do when his ex has turned the kids against him?? If you have a better answer, then why waste time critiquing my response? He likely will not see that and therefore it’s non-productive. Respond to him directly by clicking the “Reply” button next to his name and post.
Zari Ballard
February 13, 2017 at 6:08 pmHi Kevin,
I am so sorry for your situation! First, I have to ask WHY you are still paying support for adult children??? If you are doing this out of the kindness of your heart…stop immediately. Your legal obligation should be done. You can’t buy their love. Second, I understand that this is very painful but you know that you’ve done nothing wrong. At some point, and who knows when, they WILL see this for what it is. Something will happen that will turn the tides and it will be up to you if you will be there for them. What this woman has done and said relative to the children is unforgivable but it is also unforgivable that four grown adults would still be falling for the ruse. It is what it is and you must move on despite the pain of it all. You have to salvage the rest of your life and you DO deserve to be happy. Hopefully, the two middle sons will come to their senses since they showed support for you during the divorce.
But the money part really bothers me. You say… And I am still paying support for kids that want nothing to do with me. . I hope you are speaking of the one who is turning 18, right? And as soon as he turns 18, that needs to stop. None of them deserve a dime of your money ever again.
Stay strong, brother!
Zari xo
Kevin Fichtler
February 13, 2017 at 8:11 pmThanks Zari,
In response to your comment… Why are you still currently paying support ? No, I am not doing this out of the kindness of my heart.
I spoke to a lawyer around this time last year. My daughter was still in school at that time.
He said that since she (not sure if the older boys were in post secondary as we have no contact) was still in school, and not self sustaining, I must continue to pay. She was 17 at that time. He also mentioned that there is a possibility that I may even end up paying more Support. Since I have very limited resources, I chose not to pursue support alteration at that time. I decided to wait until all kids were out of school. I can’t afford to keep going back to court. Her birthday was on July 23, 2016 and turned 18.
I am now considering going back to see about getting the support order. But have to save to be able to afford a lawyer. I also came across something recently regarding ‘Child terminated access” which may be helpful to me. Thanks again for your help and concern.
Kevin
Anthony
February 7, 2017 at 3:16 pmHi Zari,
I am very appreciative of this site. My experience with an N lasted about five months and all of the ploys you so clearly explained, the verbal abuse, triangulation, etc. were there.(Thanks,Thanks,Thanks!!!) I realized that something wasn’t right. I am a good listener to my inner self and knew that 1 +1 or 2 +2 couldn’t equal 3, so although I fell for some of the tactics, I would always at times show reluctance. I was able to implement ” no contact” before reading or knowing about these monsters. It is unimaginable that a person wants to come into your life to destroy it. By extensively reading your site (and others as well) it only strengthened my resolve. I even told her once that it would be easy for me to walk by you, because I would be passing a person that I knew didn’t give a fuck about me.
Thanks Tony
Zari Ballard
February 13, 2017 at 5:39 pmHi Tony,
Thank you sharing and I’m grateful that you found the website helpful. And good for you for following your intuition. Our gut feelings are never, ever wrong! Yes, these people are hell bent on destroying those people that care about them. It is the very foundation of their DNA. It is who they are. As you say, if you ever see her, just keep on walking….
Stay strong!
Zari xo
how witty
February 3, 2017 at 5:38 pmWhy did you write the following,
“At the peak of our suffering, male victims are our only proof we have that good men even exist anymore! So, we want to hear from you! We want you to join the sisterhood!”
That just sounds like you want to feminize men, and that the only way female victims can empathize with any man is to find some man who has been hurt. As a man, I don’t enjoy being a victim of cruel women, particularly of women who utilize biased family court to manipulate and destroy men for their own amusement. I don’t want the world to look at me and see a victim, and I don’t want other victims prying into my personal business.
However, there is a darker side to what you wrote. Implied by “male victims are our only proof” is that a woman can become so wrapped up in the world of a narcissist that she will not only seek out proof, but try to make proof where none exists. In other words, it might not be enough for a woman to simply believe in the existence of good men, but she might try to inflict pain on men at random in order to justify her suffering. On the other hand, maybe she is neither suffering nor a victim, but simply exhibiting the torturous disposition common among female narcissists.
Why do women want to amplify the pain? As you said, these are not just female narcissists, but victims who seek to expose the delicate and painful experiences which men would prefer to reserve for emotional quarantine. Perhaps these women believe that ’empathy’ means ‘making other people feel the way you feel about sharing personal information.’ Then that would mean that a woman who shares personal information should expect reciprocation in the form of shared stories of victimhood. That is reciprocation, not empathy. Although the two may be linked, they are not the same. No woman should expect any man to “join the sisterhood” because she herself feels female and wants to impart that feeling within a man by assimilating him into some sorority.
One final question, are you trolling?
Zari Ballard
February 3, 2017 at 8:24 pmWow, How Witty…I do believe that the more pertinent question to ask here is are YOU trolling? This is, after all, my website. I’m fairly certain that the answer is yes because only a troll would show up at a website about narcissism, pick an article written specifically as a letter of apology to all men who have narcissistic girlfriends, and then write a berating comment about how he finds the support inappropriate. If you’re not a troll, well then you’re just a narcissist looking to start trouble for absolutely no reason at all. WHO is amplifying WHO’S pain here? Me to YOU? No. You to ME? No, because you couldn’t. YOU to other guys who come here looking for support? Yup, because you are definitely NOT representative of anyone – guy or girl – who share their stories here and correspond with the rest of us. Nor are you representative of the men that book me for phone consultations to discuss their situations. If you don’t like the kind of support that I provide for men, then why don’t you just move along instead of wasting everybody’s time on a rant – including your own?
My article clearly apologizes to the male sufferer about the fact that all articles online about narcissism refer to narcissists as the male gender. THAT is the point of the article. So, when I say “….welcome to the sisterhood”, it is meant partly in jest because 95% of those who visit and share here arewomen and the guys know it…do you understand that? I realize all too well that many men who end up on sites similar to mine don’t feel very welcome…hence, I was welcoming them to a place of support…do you get it? If you feel that my statement feminizes men, then that is your own insecurity and it certainly doesn’t speak for any other guy who has visited here thus far. And as for my stating that “the men who come here being our only proof…”, well that goes without saying. When we’re wrapped up in a bad relationship with a guy OR girl, the person who might make a decent partner (wherever he or she may be) sure seems few and far between. With the exception of you, the guys that show up here ARE awesome and, while it’s unfortunate that they are suffering as well, they sure do offer us hope that – Thank God – the great guys are really out there. What’s the big deal about that?
If you weren’t a troll and actually took the time to browse the THOUSANDS of comments under the 80+ articles here, you’d see that, despite everything being about bad relationships, there is absolutely NO men or women bashing taking place here at all. This isn’t that type of website. Again, my article was basically a letter of apology and if you can’t see it that way, then you need to move along…and I certainly hope that you did.
Thanks for sharing,
Zari:)
how witty
February 4, 2017 at 6:29 pmApparently, I don’t get it, because I’m not a ‘sister.’ I don’t take pleasure in causing other people pain and diminishing their identity by forcing them to be like me. It seems that your article perpetuates the idea that women are victims and men are abusers, because of the ‘sisterhood.’
I think it’s funny that you accuse me of being a narcissist, because it’s not unlikely that you are projecting, as a narcissist does when they are criticized. Don’t forget that trolling and criticism are two different things. I think some constructive criticism does a woman some good here and there. Unless they are perfect and cannot be criticized, as a narcissist appears to themself, but not others.
Welcoming and overshadowing are two completely different things. It’s clear that criticism is not welcome on your website and that I am not welcome here, so goodbye.
Zari Ballard
February 5, 2017 at 7:42 pmHow Witty wrote...It’s clear that criticism is not welcome on your website and that I am not welcome here, so goodbye. No, “criticism” is NOT welcome here and why should it be? Why would you come to a place of support for both women and men and criticize anybody?
If you feel the need to criticize me personally based on one article (of apology, no less!), then write me through the Contact section and we’ll discuss it that way. Otherwise, what is it that you want? I’ve already responded to your issue with the word “sisterhood” and if you don’t “get it” the way that it was intended, what is it you’d like me to do? Change “sisterhood” to “brotherhood”? You know what…if I, as a female, had no place of support online to go to and a website dominated by males issued me a letter of apology welcoming me to the “brotherhood”, I would think that to be absolutely wonderful. I’m sorry you don’t see it that way.
Now, if you had been in a relationship with a female narcissist and needed support, of course you’d be welcome here and myself and others including THE OTHER MEN WHO COME HERE would be happy to help. But you don’t even mention that so I have to assume that you are doing nothing more than trolling around trying to start trouble somewhere and happened to find yourself on my website. However, on the chance that you aren’t a troll and that perhaps you’re just a guy who got hurt by some female but doesn’t know how to express it in a community forum, you can email me via the contact page and I’ll gladly email you a copy my book When Evil Is a Pretty Face – a book I wrote specifically in support of the male victim. I can only do what I can do to reach out to everyone. I’m not a professional therapist or counselor and I don’t get paid for this so no, your unprompted “criticism” of me personally has no place here. Any time that I waste defending my intention against your “complaints” is time taken away from my helping someone else and that’s not right. Contact me if you’d like the book. Otherwise, I will have to delete any further posts.
Zari