In Part I of this series about co-parenting with a narcissist, I discussed the simple facts of sharing children with someone who has a narcissistic personality. I explained that, no matter what, the situation is never going to be, for the narcissist, about the well-being of the children. It’s always going to be about you. Once you understand this, all of the mind-boggling behaviors and all of the chaos he/she continues to create will suddenly make perfect sense. Strangely enough, knowing it’s really about you is the very thing that can give you all the power. Do not let this fact intimidate you at all. As the normal parent, this is where you gain the control.
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While there’s no magical formula for dealing with a narcissistic co-parent, the process to follow to take to keep your sanity throughout (see below) are, in and of themselves, fairly simple. This process may even seem too simple to you but in order to thwart the narcissist’s obviously nefarious intentions in co-parenting, simple is what it takes and, in fact, is how we need to keep it so that you and the children can live peacefully.
Here is my five-step process for keeping the control while co-parenting with a narcissist:
- Keep all verbal communication (in person and on the phone) to a maximum of ten minutes and no more. There is nothing that the narcissist co-parent has to say to you or you to them that cannot be said in ten minutes. If you have to keep one eye on your watch, do it and don’t be afraid to let this other person know that the time is ticking away so he/she better make it good. Then, when the time is up, hang up or walk away. Of course, if the conversation is unusually civil and sweet, then, by all means, finish the conversation but don’t fall for the ruse. Ultimately, it’s all about what they can get away with.
- Keep all verbal communication between the two of you about the child only and only if it’s necessary information. Moreover, you have to be the judge of what is necessary and what isn’t and then be confident in your decision. This tip goes hand in hand with the first tip above. All communication – even if absolutely necessary – should be ten minutes maximum and no more. Give them a second more and the conversation is guaranteed to take an ugly turn.
- No matter what is being said, practice showing only detachment and indifference. Show the narc no emotion whatsoever even if it kills you. Shut the door and then beat the wall if you have to but don’t let the narcissist ruffle your feathers. This is what a narcissist co-parent obviously likes to do. It is, in fact, the intention. My thought here is that we can fake any emotion (or, rather, non-emotion) for ten minutes, know what I mean? At the same time that you’re training the narcissist to see that he/she doesn’t have the same crazy effect on you as before, you will be re-training your own brain via practice to understand the same thing. In other words, fake it ‘till you make it.
- Document everything…even if the interaction is a good one. Ten minutes of conversation at a shot is easy to keep track of. Keep a journal/notebook handy at all times OR use that parent website where every interaction such as email or text can be recorded and where the courts have access to see it all if need be. Sometimes we have to take this route when one partner is completely uncooperative. From what I hear, narcissists absolutely hate this website because they are basically forced to be civil. The truth is that, for the most part, they can’t help but be bastards and once it’s logged in, there’s no changing it. As the normal parent, this is also a vehicle for showing the court how civil you really are even when faced with nasty responses.
- Be the best parent that you can be when you have your child…she/he will grow up knowing that you did your best and that the other parent was the monster with the smear campaign. I wrote an article about debunking the smear campaign which lends itself to what we’re talking about. Whatever you do (and no matter how hard it is), don’t talk shit about the narcissist in front of your children ever – even if you know the narcissist is doing a job on you behind your back. Your only concern is what your children/child hears coming out of your mouth. This is the only thing that you can control…do you understand this? The children will grow up knowing the difference. I guarantee it!
It goes without saying that, like everything else in life, this process needs to be practiced to become perfect. This process is all about you standing up for yourself and refusing to give in to the narcissist’s absurdity. If you mess up sometimes and engage in a screaming match, don’t beat yourself up…simply do better the next time. Many people have followed the steps and come away successful and you can to. It gets easier as time passes because the narcissist becomes trained accordingly.
Now that the relationship is finally over, there isn’t a reason in hell why you still have to suffer. Take control, stay calm, show detachment and indifference just ten minutes at a time, and watch how the environment suddenly changes. You and your children deserve to be happy – and it is that happiness – at least from an emotional standpoint – over which you really do have total control.
Cin
December 30, 2017 at 4:11 pmThis certainly helps with my current situation so thank you! We share a 3 1/2 year old son. We are waiting for a mediation date for child support and custody arrangements. At this point I don’t care about money, my concern is the custody arrangements. I’ve been doing research and spoke to someone who works in the attorney generals office and haven’t received any information that works in the best interest of my child. I was involved in domestic violence and all others forms of abuse (mental, emotional, sexual, financial, physical) throughout the entire relationship to include pregnancy, infront of our child and while I was physically holding my 6 day old son). I left our household in February 2016 while he was away bc I couldn’t leave while he was at home. While I lived with my mother we were on and off bc I kept falling for his manipulative ways. I decided to officially call it quits in April of 2017. In Texas, the standard court order states that he is entitled to keep our son for a full 30 days during the summer break while I get one weekend during that month. The person from the attorney generals office informed me that I lost leverage by allowing our child to spend the night with him every other weekend. She stated that doing so proves that i don’t believe my child is in any danger. I let him keep our son every other weekend bc I was manipulated by him over and over again, and at the time I was afraid I could legally get in trouble for denying him the right to see our son despite we not having a court order. I do not feel comfortable with my son spending a full 30 days with his father. I’ve been living on my own with child since August 2017 and he continues living with his father. He anticipates that he will move out in spring of 2018 and I’m afraid bc he longer will have the assistant and supervision of his father. He has been in a relationship for a little over a month, states that they are in love and he plans to marry her. Though I have nothing against her, she has 3 children of her own and he already had a daughter from a previous relationship prior to our relationship. My sons father hardly provides financial support despite he having a decent job and living rent free with his dad. I have always physically and financially supported our son (including health insurance). He recently started sending some money and i suspect it’s bc he’s trying to prove he’s supporting his son. My concern is that given that his father is an abuser, he’s moving extremely fast in his new relationship with a woman that has 3 kids, he already having a daughter, will be living out on his own, that my child will be affected by all this chaos. I fear my child will be exposed to a form of abuse, will feel out of place when he’s with his father and this potential step mother. His father has never asked to keep our son for a month the entire time we’ve been physically living apart (Feb 2016) but all of sudden he wants that privilege. I informed him that since he’s already brought this woman around my child I requested to meet with her one-on-one bc I don’t feel comfortable him being present (as he is manipulating) but he denied that request saying he needed to be present and i suspect it’s bc he’s afraid i may reveal the truth. I know that if he is there he will control the conversation and could potentially ruin a good relationship that she and I could have. I feel defeated bc he does not communicate what my child is doing when he is with him and has lied. I feel defeated. I just want to make sure my child is loved, protected and adequately cared for. I can’t rely on my son to tell me bc he has speech delays (currently in speech therapy). Any advise or words of encouragement would help! I pray, pray, pray! I never pressed charges on his father, all I have are 2 police reports from the fall of 2014, one regarding family violence/assault and one for harassment. His parents are aware of the abuse but are major enablers of his poor behavior. My family and friends are also aware. Help!
Kaelon Counce
October 12, 2017 at 8:25 amI’m struggling bad. We share a 2 yr old daughter and have been split since Aug 2017. We have a court ordered parenting plan and use Our Fam Wizard-it’s the worst thing ever now. Since that can be used in court, he now uses it as a platform to try and shine as super dad, and make himself look like the custodial, perfect parent (we have 50/50). He talks to me as if he’s writing a thesis paper and I hate it!! I’m trying hard to not play his games and simply respond with “okay” or short sentences. But I feel like doing that, will bite me in the butt later in court because he’s setting himself up to look like this great Dad and is telling me what to do. I even tried to reach out to his gf for coffee, and the meeting literally lasted 3 minutes because “she was told she only had to introduce herself” smh. I feel so alienated as if he and his fiancé are trying to replace me as her mom!!! Every chance he gets, he tries to control and limit me through our daughter. I want to be able to go back to court and modify our plan for more parenting time, but I’m not even sure if it would be granted. I don’t even exercise my phone calls on his nights because I don’t want to deal with him!! Any time I’ve asked for a phone call, he makes up a reason to delay it to the next day (we are entitled to one call a night per our plan), so he can remain in control smh.
Zari Ballard
November 13, 2017 at 12:02 amHi Kaelon,
Do not think that a court won’t see how ridiculously over-the-top his correspondence with you sounds IF they ever have to look at it. That being said, I’m a bit confused as to why you have 50/50 when the child is so young. I just find that odd and wonder how that came about. Usually the courts would side with the mom on that since it makes no sense to confuse a baby with two homes. But since it IS that way, you need to have more confidence in the fact that YOU are the mom. There’s no reason why you can’t say what you feel like saying in a responsible manner in the Wizard. If you don’t agree with something, say it. And why do you have to ASK for a phone call?? If he denies it, well that’s a strike against him, isn’t it? He can’t DO that. You are the MOM. Why are you allowing him or his girlfriend to intimidate you? There’s no reason to feel alienated…he certainly doesn’t have MORE power than you at 50/50…it’s supposed to be EVEN. You simply have to make your time with your daughter as special as can be. By the plan alone, there’s nothing he can control unless you allow him to do it. He needs to stick to the rules. Unless there is a good reason why there is 50/50, you bet I’d be trying to modify that plan. How does that even work…50/50 with a two year old??? If more “visitation” is what you want, then you must at least try. Stand up for yourself with this awful person! You are the MOM, sister:)
Zari xo
Christina
December 29, 2017 at 9:12 pmKaelon I know exactly how you feel. Situation very similar. Maybe we can connect and help each other through this journey.
Dennis
July 17, 2017 at 6:09 amPlease stop making narcissism an excuse to divorce and then remarry. You may divorce your husbands but, then, according to the bible, your choices are either to remain celibate or reconcile with him. Jesus also gives you the right to remarry if your husband commits unrepentant and ongoing adultery with a third party. Lust in his mind does not count. Besides, one must also have clean hands in order to divorce for this adultery. Narcissism can be cured like everything else. it may take months or years of being apart for your husband to realize just how much he loves you and his children.
Zari Ballard
July 17, 2017 at 3:49 pmDennis,
Save your bible-thumping trolling for another site. You don’t have the spiritual credentials to judge me or anyone else for that matter and you certainly don’t have the authority to tell us what our choices are. People like you interpret the Bible to suit your own twisted ideologies. The God that I grew up with doesn’t want ANYONE to walk this earth abused and unhappy and he certainly doesn’t expect it from one sex and not the other. If I’m not mistaken, the Bible also states that there is evil on this earth that is just that – evil. Evil is un-fixable and narcissism is evil and, therefore, not worth the wait. Moreover, everyone who has written here HAS waited for years. I, for one, gave my ex 13-years of chances and that was plenty. There are men and women here who have waited much longer. So, find something else to do with your time instead of trolling websites where people come to each other for support. My guess is that you are alone and so you should be.
Zari
Em
September 8, 2017 at 7:03 pmDennis, while it is admirable that you want to follow Christ, you are remembering one command while forgetting two others:
1 Corininthians 7:15 – but if the unbelieving partner separates, let it be so. In such cases, the brother or sister is not enslaved. God has called you to peace.
1 Corinthians 5:12 – 13
What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”
So, in other words, you are kind of trolling.
My husband (a non-Christian) abandoned me. It was horrific. He told his family the most crushing lies about me. I begged him to go to marriage counseling. He wouldn’t. He doesn’t understand why this hurt our children. So, by Biblical standards, I’m free. If he really followed Jesus, that would be different. We ought to be able to reconcile then, because he’d be tuned in to God’s loving voice.
By telling these people who’ve suffered unbelievably at the hands of monsters – real monsters – that they’re wrong because Jesus wouldn’t approve… you’re making Jesus sound like a narcissist. The very person who has hurt them.
People have to know who Christ is and that His love is true and infinite before they’ll care about Jesus’ wisdom.
Zari Ballard
September 9, 2017 at 7:10 pmEm wrote…My husband (a non-Christian) abandoned me. It was horrific. He told his family the most crushing lies about me. I begged him to go to marriage counseling. He wouldn’t. He doesn’t understand why this hurt our children. So, by Biblical standards, I’m free. If he really followed Jesus, that would be different. We ought to be able to reconcile then, because he’d be tuned in to God’s loving voice.
Hi Em,
THANK YOU for your response to Dennis AND for the verses to go with it. I could hug you! You said it EXACTLY right and I am most appreciative.
Zari xoxo
Emilie Blythe
September 10, 2017 at 3:17 pmZari,
Hugs right back at you! Thank you so much for these tips! Especially the one about how to handle the smear campaign. That’s the hardest one for me, but I know that you’re right – my kids will see the difference in time.
If it weren’t for articles like yours, I wouldn’t know what to look out for or how to handle it.
Many blessings!
Zari Ballard
September 13, 2017 at 6:05 pmAnytime, girl:)
runnermum
November 7, 2017 at 12:33 amDennis you obviously do not know what a narc is. He breaks his vows on a continuous basis day by day by day with his abuse and his disrespect and his mind games. So the victim should obey God’s rules but the narc doesn’t have to…
God is a God of love and therefore He won’t allow us to feel guilty about divorcing a person that has never kept to his vows or live according to God’s commandments.
It is hard enough to live with the knowledge that you can’t keep to the vows you made before God and friends and family – you do not have the right to add to that guilt.
Go read up about narcs first and then see for yourself that it is incurable because the narc can’t see any fault in their behaviour.
Elizabeth Jones
May 2, 2017 at 7:39 pmI’m so happy a friend showed me this page. It has been so helpful after an on and off marriage of 9 years. We have a daughter together and co-parenting is a nightmare. Everything from threading my life to my new boyfriends career to running away with our daughter and never returning. He does not pay support and I avoid fighting him all together to keep as little contact. The fight isn’t worth the risk. I would really like to know what this court website is you speak of in these steps. Thank you so much for sharing all of this information!
Zari Ballard
May 7, 2017 at 10:06 amYour welcome, sister! The court website is https://www.ourfamilywizard.com/ and I think it’s a great idea. I wish that had been available when i was going through all that. It would have saved me a whole lot of grief:)
xo
Countrygirl17
January 30, 2017 at 11:46 amThis is the first time I have commented on a site. I think this site is very useful but I would love to find more information to help out the new partners of the co-parenting victims of a narcissist. I feel like my story is a little different coming from my stand point, but I was also able to help give a little advice to a friend in a similar scenario… My husband and I were high school sweethearts and dated for 5 years, he and his ex for 6 years after that and he helped raise her two kids (girl and boy with 2 different dads) until they split up. Then he moved in with me for a place to stay and she quickly married. He and I rekindled our relationship and made it public to her and the kids. So I became a part of it. From the beginning, I always felt like she was showing off to me (maybe because of my history with him before?) I just felt like she was trying to make me jealous. It became very difficult for me with the manipulative things she would do like talk about her personal life to him, invite him over for dinner with the kids, ask him for money.. I just never saw good, true intentions. But we always tried to keep things on good terms. Then I started putting my foot down on some things about what I felt was respectful and fair with me being more involved. She and I even got to know each other more and talk more. and there was still always her not being satisfied with his parenting saying he wasn’t there enough no matter how much he tried. It was always hot or cold. Hating him or liking him.. Sometimes ignoring him or randomly commenting on a picture of him on Facebook. I respectfully mentioned to her my comfort zone and to keep things about the kids, she attacked me and said I was jealous and no longer to be a part of their lives.. Once he started distancing with her, unless having to do with the kids, she got angry and made him publicly look bad, eventually ignoring his calls and texts completely. It has been over a year since he has last seen them. The daughter (now 11) doesn’t even have a father figure in her life now (oh I forgot to mention the her husband got locked up). I worry for the kids all the time!! It consumes me sometimes.. And I feel guilty for getting in the middle of things but also know I didn’t do anything. So just now, I was just about to send her a text message trying to reach out to her.. Apologize, open up about how I understand everything was hard for the kids and her, and to provide closure to her even tho she is the one that had ignored us (i am trying to take the high road here and maybe get back on mutual grounds or get closure).. I have contemplated about sending this for some time. Our hearts ache for those kids, how they feel, no closure for us or them… If I send the message could it open up a can of worms potentially? I would love more information on how new partner’s to narcissist victims can handle things. My friend went through this and it is gutt-wrenching.. They try to make us feel jealous and that they possess everything, while dangling a carrot over my husband and walk on egg shells. I gave my friend tips to pretty much “kill her with kindness” and step up and don’t let her make you feel that way. Now I am lost now that the “game” is over. My husband has decided to give up pretty much. I don’t blame him, but is me reaching out being naive or me feeling guilty to have caused this? Is there a chance for them to know there is a good man out there in this world that loves them deeply? Thank you.
Zari Ballard
January 31, 2017 at 1:28 amHi Countrygirl17,
Thank you for sharing your story and it is heartbreaking. However, the truth is that those children aren’t his and no amount of attention on your part (or even his) is going to change that. I don’t see any point at all in contacting her. All it would do is open up that can of worms you fear and cause you all kinds of grief. If your husband has pretty much given up then you need to too. I suppose you could continue to send birthday cards and holiday cards to the children in hopes that one day when their older they’ll come around by themselves. Other than that, you have to weigh it out and I just don’t see any good coming of it. Hopefully, the children are cared for and safe and you can hope for that.
Although I appreciate your compassion and concern and worry, the other truth is that it really should be your husband who reaches out because technically he is the “closest” to the kids. Again, though, they are not his and I do believe that if they were his he would be going all out to try and see them. Even he has to feel some kind of disconnect given the circumstances and perhaps stepping back is what he feels is best. The last thing he wants to do is reach out to see the kids and the first time he does something she doesn’t like, she’ll throw out the fact that they aren’t his. I imagine she has probably already done that here and there.
Yes, it is very sad for you, your husband, and for the children but my thinking is that, now that there has been a separation, it may just be better to keep it that way for all involved. I’m sorry for your trouble and hope this helps. It’s just my opinion though…I’m here to support you no matter what, sister:)
Zari xo
Mariya
December 14, 2016 at 4:50 amHi Zari
Thank you so much for these articles, they are really helpful in trying to navigate this minefield!
One question, I don’t want to talk badly about my ex in front of the kids ( they are 12 and 13 years old) but I do feel they need to know how his behaviour was wrong and how sometimes the things he does with them is wrong and not their fault. Though obviously they have seen a lot of the abuse themselves, but how can I address this without bad mouthing him ??
thanks
Zari Ballard
December 16, 2016 at 7:37 pmHi Mariya,
Well, you’re going to have to pick your battles here with the co-parenting. I agree NOT to talk smack about him in front of the kids – even though he will surely talk about you with no problem. Ignore it. The truth is that the kids grow up remembering who the bad talker was and they will automatically gravitate towards the other parent. Now, having said that, what things does he do with them that is wrong and how important is it really? Do they come back from dad’s thinking everything is their fault? If that’s the case, my thinking is that you only say something if they say something. If they’re walking around looking sad and forlorn, find out why and then CASUALLY say, “Oh that’s just dad, you know how he is. It’s not your fault at all and he knows it.” THEN I would talk to HIM and tell him what happened and that he better not do it again. If there are things that he does wrong that AFFECTS them in horrible, negative ways then YEAH say something to HIM about it. But if it’s just things that you know you hate about him but the kids are okay when they come back and don’t seem any worse for the wear, then leave it alone. The things with narcissists is that they will always dig their own parental grave anyway and the kids figure this out on their own. If you don’t want to speak to him at all, why don’t you try that website ourfamilywizard.com where you can set it up so that all communications is done through the website. This way, if you ever have to go back to court, it’s documented. Narcissists usually hate it but that’s okay because they will write crazy things as if the court won’t even look (but they will) and the other partner can respond calmly and always look like the better person (which you are). Just a thought.
But yeah, pick your battles. Kids are smart and they already know whats up and they know who is the more secure functioning parent. Don’t address it unless you really have to. If the kids complain, just say “I know…that’s the way daddy is and I know it’s not right but things will be okay. Just know its never your fault, k?” They’ll be just fine, mom:)
Stay strong!
Zari xo
C
August 22, 2016 at 8:27 amThank you for this article and all you do…
I just went through the family court system, AGAIN, because of his power struggle and happy to say the judge ruled that he has to accept (my choice) my means of communication which is email. Even though he’s never met his only son, he is ordered to share financial responsibility.
This is where it gets interesting…any limited email I send to him (which contains his financial obligations and nothing else) I have attached a tracker to. The tracker alerts me that the email has been received and read. But it also documents the duration and views.
Of the three that I’ve sent so far since court, all of them have been viewed on average of 75 times and continue to be even though they’re weeks old at this point. I initially did this to undermine his games and have some sort of proof for the next time we are in court (and you know they’ll be a next time).
But…this has helped me immensely to further understand his level of dysfunction. Two of the emails contained only two sentences. They are all business like and nowhere near personal. So I don’t know what exactly he’s getting out of viewing them but the 75 times is enough proof of his still occurring behaviors for me.
Zari Ballard
August 26, 2016 at 1:27 amHi C,
Yes, I would say that 75 times is enough. These creatures are so twisted, aren’t they? OMG, just keep doing what you’re doing to keep it separated. Ignore this mind-boggling behavior and be glad he’s not doing it next to you the room anymore. Live your life and be happy:)
Zari xo
MissLM
September 2, 2016 at 2:35 pmHi C I am interested in finding out about the tracker you use? Ex N always says he “didn’t see the message” but I know he did. Returning back to Court next week for the 1827483758437 millionth time and requesting Court program for contact. Currently using Gmail. Thanks!
Dubs
September 28, 2016 at 10:23 amYes, C and Zari… I am very interested in this tracker as well as the parent website you mentioned… any help would be great!
Zari Ballard
September 30, 2016 at 7:06 pmHi Dubs,
It’s called “Our Family Wizard” and here’s the link.:)
Zari xo