The only thing harder than breaking up/going No Contact with a narcissist is breaking up/going No Contact with a narc who also happens to be your baby daddy/momma. Based on the countless emails and comments that I receive from victims (both male AND female) who struggle to co-parent with a narcissist ex, it’s clear to me that there are no easy solutions. In fact, up until I began to write this post, I was beginning to fear that perhaps there were no solutions but this answer simply wasn’t acceptable to me. How am I supposed to help if there are no solutions? So, I gave the subject a good deal of thought and decided tom put a slightly different spin on this very unique co-parenting scenario. Ultimately, what I decided was that co-parenting with a narcissistic ex AND having a peaceful life can happen because it must and that the Agony of Defeat was not insurmountable.
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Can a Narcissist love his/her children?
This is the big question, of course, and I believe that the answer to that is ‘no’ – at least not in the way normal people love their children. In fact, it’s not even close. The truth is that a narcissist can no more love his or her children than he or she can love a partner, friend, family member, or anyone else. I’ve never seen it happen. I’ve never read about it happening. I’ve never heard about it happening. It’s just not possible. An N is an N is an N. If history showed that even the slightest possibility existed that narcissists could, in fact, love their own children, I’d be tempted to think that narcissism perhaps was fixable. But there is no history any where that does this…no history, that is, that is based in fact and not in wishful thinking. No, narcissists do not and can not ‘love’ their children.
Now, having said that, do not be misled into thinking that narcissists do not find their children useful under certain circumstances because…oh yeah…they most certainly do. In fact, the N who is a combination “ex-partner” and “co-parent” has the luxury of circulating, surviving, and thriving at levels of evil far beyond that of the typical narcissistic asshole. The narcissist co-parent is indeed a SuperPower in his own right! Yes, he/she who holds this coveted position is awarded the type of false entitlements that a single non-parent narcissist only dreams about. And for the victim partner who wants to get away, a break-up with this narcissist superpower appears too often to be a hopeless situation…a brand new narcissistic show of chaos that promises to be far more damaging than the first, second, and third. And, this time, it is the children who get bumped to the top of the N’s hit list.
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Is it possible to go No Contact with a narcissist co-parent?
No, not in the way that No Contact was originally intended. Victims who want/need the torture to stop but still have to deal with co-parenting issues are left to their own devices without a single one of the privileges that many other victims may take for granted. As a victim who co-parents, how do you block a phone number, move away, refuse to answer the door, blow off the in-laws, and so forth when children are involved? You can’t. How do you flat out refuse to communicate with a parent that the children (bless their hearts) have been duped into loving? How do you deal with the fact that the narcissist talks shit about you to the kids and you can’t even defend yourself (because you choose to do the right thing and stay quiet)?
Because the N is not a normal human, he/she is going to use the children as a narcissistic tactic and weapon of choice to cut you to the very bone. Since the N has no conscience, dragging the children into the dirt is nothing but a thing and the easiest way to hurt you. The N will use every excuse in the book pertaining to the children to intrude upon your new life. At some point, the narcissist may even threaten you – either with CPS or by saying that he simply won’t be bringing them back. Granted, the latter scenario isn’t likely because a typical N honestly can’t be bothered (but the thought is nonetheless horrifying since you know the boundaries that this person will cross both in court and out). Sadly, you will now have to watch the torture that was your relationship played out towards the children. Since the narcissist (again, male or female) can no longer Idolize, Devalue, & Discard you, he will turn his pathological relationship agenda upon the children. It’s likely he/she will make plans with the children and then not show up. The N may promise to call and then conveniently forget – for days, weeks, or longer. He/she may even miss holidays altogether, choosing instead to be with a “new” ‘victim’ family and partner. He will relish the thought that even now, with the relationship being over, he can still continue to torture you by torturing the children. And since the children, at least while they’re young, tend to love a narcissist parent unconditionally no matter how neglectful and indifferent he/she may be, the N ultimately gets nearly a life time to make sure you are never happy again!
So, what is the answer?
The answer, first, is to know that the relationship between you and the N is over. At this point, despite how he appears to others, you already know the type of parent that he really is and must proceed to use this information to (for once) serve your own purpose. How much time did the N really spend with the children anyway? Narcissists are historically not doting fathers and mothers or even participating fathers and mothers. Over and over, I hear stories of narcissists walking out just weeks after a child is born. Silent treatments!! Can you imagine that?? Silent treatments when there’s an infant and new mother at home? I hear about narcissists who walk out just days before Christmas, leaving the children with not the slightest idea where daddy went. This may not be exactly the case with your ex-N but I bet its close. Use this knowledge to your advantage. You are a good person. He is not.
As a co-parent with an N, you, too, must strive to be a SuperPower! You must develop thicker skin than you ever thought possible so that every nasty comment he throws your way rolls off your back. You must be able to take an emotional beating without anyone being the wiser. You have to learn to detach, detach, detach and commit, commit, commit to setting boundaries and making rules of engagement. Communication, if possible, should be limited to text, email, and the sporadic phone call…and it must only concern sensible/reasonable issues about the children (and, really, how many of those can there be that have to involve the N?). Above all else, do your best to react to nothing (the point of the N’s game, after all, is to make YOU the psycho co-parent) unless it’s life threatening to the children and even then pay no attention to him/her specifically.
Do not worry about and/or feed into the enormous amount of trash-talking going on behind your back. In fact, say nothing and simply observe, allowing the N to talk trash about mommy (or daddy) all day long if he/she wants to. Sit quietly on the sidelines while the pathetic narcissist digs his own parental grave – and he will dig it because he just won’t be able to help himself. Take comfort in the fact that children are strong, resilient, and smart. They will grow up one day and see the narcissist parent for what he/she is and you will come out the winner. The mask always slips and that’s a fact.
From co-parenting with a narcissist, nothing good ever comes… this we already know so where else can we really go but up? You must believe in your heart that no matter how hurtful the narcissist is or how evil his intention, you are still free! The relationship is over. You may now look upon the Narcissist as nothing more than an annoying sperm donor and treat him accordingly. He deserves nothing less, nothing more. For years, the narcissist has been methodically managing down your expectations...preparing for this very day….setting the stage for this break-up because he knew it would come…it had to come. The narcissist co-parent counts on the fact that his passive-aggressive conditioning of your responses to his words and behaviors has stuck and that you still fear what he could do, might do, will do. He counts on his control in this situation and your emotional fragility. The fact that he gets to use the kids against you is just an added bonus!
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Turn it around by having no more fear. It’s time to up the ante.
First, if the narcissist has a girlfriend, tell him you want to be communicative with her about the children. Now, the N will hate this but that’s too bad. Normal couples in normal break-ups speak to “the others” all the time. In fact, you should simply refuse to send the kids unless you at least get to speak to her on the phone for five detached minutes about Suzie’s sort throat. If you show that you’re willing and actually prefer to communicate with the OW, the N is likely to begin behaving immediately to ensure this never happens – and that’s fine too (it’s what we want). I’d be willing to bet that, within a short amount of time, the narcissist will begin to back out completely since the fun of making you suffer will have been taken out of the equation. Using this particular communication twist clearly sends a message to the N that says: I don’t care about you anymore.
Do not allow fear to keep you from being free. You have to let it all go (narcissist included). Do not let your emotions rule your actions. You can still initiate and implement your own version of No Contact with the narcissist co-parent. You can still move on with your life. Chances are high that if you show indifference, detachment, and a refusal to play the game on his terms in any way, the narcissist will do what he has always done and vanish anyway. The children will still grow up to be wonderful people. In the end, you – as the co-parenting ex victim – will be stronger than any of us who have embarked on this journey. Your decision to end it with the N despite the fact that you have children together will always be the right decision.
I tip my hat to you, sisters and brothers. It’s going to be a challenge but I know you can do it. Change your perspective and change your life. Do not let the N twist the rules of the game to serve his/her own purpose. Allow no more manipulation because that part of your life is over!! Don’t allow the co-parenting dilemma to become an excuse to stay connected with the N. Instead, beat the co-parent narcissist at his/her own game by playing by the rules. You can win. I know you can!
Alexander Bird
March 31, 2016 at 11:24 amHi just checking in things are going pretty smooth how are you doing
Zari Ballard
April 2, 2016 at 1:14 amHi Alex,
I was thinking of you recently, wondering how you were doing, brother. I hope you’re safe out there on the new job…I imagine it’s a pretty crazy and dangerous time to be a cop in today’s world. I don’t know how you do it. What shift are you working? I’m doing really well…hanging in there and real busy. How is your daughter and how has the ex been treating you? I’m so glad you came by to say hi!
Zari xo
AlabamaPeach
March 15, 2016 at 5:50 pmFirstly I want you to know I bought your book this morning after my ex broke up with me just this past Friday, for idk the 100th time. Zari, I let my N ruin my LIFE! I was so stupid. We have a child now & I am living with his family but I just wish I could get away.
I hope you respond but this is gonna be a doozy. I JUST WANT TO SAY THERE WERE RED FLAGS FROM THE BEGINNING. When I met my ex he was beyond Prince Charming. I met him while visiting my home state of Alabama to see a childhood friend. I was living in Chicago with a very high paying job & working in a field I love that is very specific to the Chicago area. My ex saw me in a very popular bar and I was really hot stuff that night & I had a pretty steady stream of guys coming up & offering me drinks I would turn them down And my girlfriend would take the drinks. My ex was about the 16th guy to try to pick me up & he was persistent after being turned down twice he was back & this time I was annoyed . So this time I was mean . (Later I would find out this interaction was recorded) after my bummer of a evening I lookup to find the bar cleared out & my girlfriend missing extremely intoxicated she left with a random guy & I’m stranded . Like a predator in the wild my N appears offering assistance & now I feel bad for being mean. I decline any sort of ride but I give him my number and tell him we can meet up when I come back in a few weeks for the holidays. From that night on he wooed me with texts and calls non stop explaining his successful career fancy places I’ve never heard of . He just impressed me. I went from rejecting him to straight desire . When I came home for the holidays he took me some where fancy & That night we banged & it was the best bang of my life. Within weeks I told him things I’ve told no one. He shared “storys” lol The next two months were filled with fancy dates and trips back and forth all the while he consistently tried to convince me I could move home with my mother and be as successful as I was in Chicago . And any way he would take care of me. I definitely believed that would, he had been so generous over the last 2 months & after being feed how much he loved me & we were soulmate I quit my dream job & moved home. Month 3 & 4 were still prefect, Dates 3 times a week sleep overs every other night and he the way he spoke to & of me to our now mutual friends made me feel on top of the world ! At the time I had a beautiful luxury car with a heavy payment . I still hadn’t found work & he offered to pay with no problems. He payed for everything & was so attentive even throwing me a lavish yaht party for my birthday. So what happened on our way to one of our fancy dates during the end of the 4th month of us dating & my second month home shocked the shit out of me. He says “I need to talk to you.” I get excited thinking maybe a proposal??? Things have been going so great ! No , he tells me he’s been “dating” a girl for 2 years but he’s not in love with her. It was an open relationship & she knew about me I was crushed . Why wouldn’t he say that 2 months ago ? Anyway I told him fuck off, and it ended or so I thought . A month later I find out I’m pregnant. I tell him & he tells me now he & the girl he didn’t love are now serious & kick rocks. During my pregnancy we had little to no contact & I was happy with that we spoke on a need to know basis . And he’d go missing for months. I didn’t care or care to contact him but every now & then he would send me penis pictures I didn’t respond to or angrily call me accusing me of calling his girlfriend & so I hated her for lying on me. Now I wonder if he was making it up. After I had our daughter he was there for her in a way my friends called him instadad bc he seemed to dress her up in many outfits on the days he had her & take many pictures for Instagram lol making it look like he had had her for days even though he may have had her a few hours lol . He started to come over & linger a long time at my moms at pick up/drop offs then one day he asked me out & I was really excited ! He professed his love then blamed me for our prolonged separation huh??? He says if only I would have asked him to leave her that day we would have been married by now ? Over 5 year I heard ” if I would have only done (insert anything here) we would have been married by now. I messed up my potential engagement & wedding too many times to count. We soon moved in together well kinda he got “us” an apartment and he stayed most nights he kept his apartment as well. Payed both rents & when I started to question this the silent treatments started. While living in “our” apartment I wasn’t allowed to leave the house on my own bc the neighborhood was dangerous, he was telling his friends awful things about me being lazy & not working but he wouldn’t allow me to. He told me no one liked me . He would accidentally take my key to the house leaving me trapped I started to feel crazy & act a little crazy too. I never caught him cheating but I tried he was spending more & more time ignoring my calls while spending days in his apartment bc “I was crazy”. I had so many friends all my life but at that point in my life I truly believe something was wrong with me no one liked me and I’m crazy & I have issues . I mean why can’t I make this good good man happy. He made it clear to me I needed to change. And I would try but it seemed to be a moving target all of a sudden this man who made me feel perfect two years ago had a laundry list of my flaws. I couldn’t argue I had no clue who I was anymore. I started to ab use alcohol and one day l just broke down & so he asked me to leave go home to my mother I was out of control & he didn’t want to be with me because I ruined his life. I went to my mothers defeated, depressed and obsessed calling & texting him nonstop . Hoping he would regret his decision. After 3 months he came back and it was AWESOME for like 3 months when he saw a innocent text between me & my male best friend of 19 years and he strangled me to the point I passed out & struck me. To this day I’ve never touched another man but We breakup again & I beg him completely him letting off the hook for hurting me. Well he has a very good reputation in the community I wasn’t even sure I’d be believed he’s told everyone I was the crazy drunk . After weeks of begging He comes back kind of he’s my boyfriend but nothing like the one of years past we have been on the two weeks on/two weeks off thing for a year now. I’m homeless on welfare with our daughter now 4 and he only takes me our sometimes on budget dates it’s not about the money he has an even better job now than when we met. He goes into complete rages over super minor this like I spilled a soda on his carpet & thats grounds for a breakup. We broke up on Friday bc I was I was very ill & I asked him could he stay home from work to take me to the hospital and he said no I will take you later when I get off . I didn’t argue. I don’t do that anymore. I called a girlfriend of mine to take me. I waited until after he left from spending the night with me on the sofa I sleep on to go to work. My girlfriend took me and when he found out he broke up with me for not listening and disrespecting him by calling my girlfriend. I’m so tired. I was relived , I promptly blocked him on my phone & created an email address for us to communicate about our daughter he’s either really cold or angry and mean in his emails. I’m shocked he didn’t protest the emails But I really want to never see him again or speak to him again I live with his family I asked him to pick up our daughter when I’m not home but he came over to pick her up early today & barges in the bathroom while I’m puttingon my makeup & like snarls at me & grabs our daughter and storms out . WHAT DOES HE WANT FROM ME ??? I’ve lost it all . I’m starting a really good job next month I’m hoping its a start to a new beginning. I’m not engaging him. I don’t even know why he’s sooooooo angry this time , this is the worst he’s ever been & I don’t want peace . I want out. Please help me.
Zari Ballard
March 16, 2016 at 1:55 pmHi AlabamaPeach,
Wow…I’m so sorry that you’re going through that. He’s an asshole narcissist alright and of course you’re better off without it. However, what’s going on with child support???? Please tell me that you have a court order. If you’re on welfare, I’m assuming that you do and I hope it’s decent enough. If you don’t, get yourself down to the welfare office and give them all the information that you have on him so they can go after him. And why are you living with his family? I don’t understand that at all. You can’t live at your mom’s or at your best male friend’s place? Can you go back to the city where you were doing good at? As long as you live with his family, you will never move ahead. I just don’t see it happening.
You need to put up boundaries and keep them up as best that you can. He shouldn’t be allowed to barge into the bathroom and grab your daughter or be rude to you but, then again, you live with his family. Again, why do you do that???? As long as you live there, it’s going to be hell. You might think his family is on your side but they’re really flying monkeys for the narcissist and you need to get away from them. The email is a good idea and of course the job would be even better…but why are you even staying in that town? Put out feelers somewhere else or at least move back to your moms. Tell her this time you are done…how can she turn you and your daughter away?
And the child support? I want to know about that. Write again and fill me in on those very important details….
Zari xo
AlabamaPeach
March 16, 2016 at 2:52 pmHey Zari I’m so happy you responded! I’ll answer all your questions. 1.) I live with his mom bc much like in your book I got future faked with a tearful convo in a car. One day he pulls up at my moms wearing like what the man in my fantasy would wear these incredibly expensive hard to find shoes that just happened to be my all time fav shoes & that sparked a convo which led to the car and a bunch of promises including a trip to Europe he’s already planned and a new home for us and I desperately wanted to leave my mothers . The home for us came under the condition we go to the therapy & I move closer to him & the therapist bc my mom lived a hour & a halo away from him … But we should take it slow he says bc our last cohabitation was so ugly he suggests I move in with his sister for a while but his sister is crazy too so I told his mom the plans & she invited me to stay. 2.) my mom is a nice lady but she is not been a good mother to her children she puts the men in her life way before us so she moved with a man she just met halfway across the country & is reliant on him it I’ve brought it up to move there she didn’t say no …. But it’s a no. 3.) I just started to receive welfare. Bc I wanted to get childcare for our daughter and not depend on his family when I start this new job. Eventually I hope they will get him for child support. But he is a tricky guy & ive given them his address but he has other addresses they will catch up with him eventually but not as of yet. I have literally cut off all my friends in this relationship & have no family close I just have to become completely independent. And to be honest I’m so excited! I haven’t felt so good about the prospects for my life in four years.
Ps. I want to tell you about that European vacation we had a few months ago. Lol Smh! Your book spoke to me. When you say the Narcissistic will show you what he’s doing by what he accused you of omg THE TRUTH. Two days before the trip he hacks my phone all calls texts emails sent to his phone bc he thought I was dating an ex I wasn’t. He apologized & the trip commenced. On the very long trip he takes out his laptop and purchases the inflight wifi but his iMessages were attached to his Mackbopk and all the texts started flooding in about 7 from his ex ugh the one from 4 years ago -__- that he didn’t love , smh I didn’t get to read them he deleted them so quick . We had a horrible trip bc all we did was argue about why he would be talking to her which then he future faked me again ” I brought you out here to ask you to MARRY ME ! I’m here with you !!! She’s home wishing someone would take her to Europe ” by the time we were on the plane I was crying and apologizing smh I’m so happy that God lifted that fog ! Soooo happy
Zari Ballard
March 18, 2016 at 6:46 pmHi AlabamaPeach,
Well, girl, if you are excited for your future, then so am I! LOL I wish you the best with your job and I pray it makes you financially independent quick so you can get away from this creep. [If he has a job with a paycheck, you need to give DES that information so they can have the money taken out of his check.]….I’m grateful your fog has lifted. Please hold tight to that feeling and keep it going!
Stay strong, my sister!
Zari xo
B
March 6, 2016 at 1:30 pmHi I’m looking for some advice, I’m hoping you can help. My ex is a narc & quite often will not bother turning up to pick our daughter up (8 out of 10 times). We don’t have a court order in place, we’ve agreed for him to have her one day a week. He was having her one day a fortnight but he asked to change to weekly, and then never bothered sticking to it. Im considering stopping contact full stop as when he does pick her up its 2 hours before her bedtime & he brings her back the next morning early. Not just that but I’m fed up of making plans & also having to find a back up plan for when he doesn’t turn up. Our lives would be less stressful without his inconsistencies. What do you think I should do. Thanks
Vee
April 14, 2016 at 9:09 pmI am going through the same thing! Except I moved back to the Narcs home state thinking things would be different and things remained the same. He picked up when he felt like it, cancelled at the last minute, paid child support on his terms and when he felt like it, and then withheld child support as a punishment to me for deciding to file child support in the courts because I got tired of it getting pushed back. If you dont have a custody arrangement, I would advise involving one of his family members or a third party who could also vouch for you in court about his inconsistency and cancellations. Act like he doesnt exist, block his number, and move on. They really dont care about the Kid, they just want you as their supply!
Sara
March 4, 2016 at 2:21 pmI’ve been divorced and “co-parenting” with my ex-husband for 11 years. Our children are 16 and 14 now. You say in your article that family responsibilities are “boring” to the N and he will do the absolute minimum, which was absolutely true when we were married with two small children. However, after our separation, he immediately moved in with (and is now married to) a childless, older woman who has a very successful career (and hence, a lot of money (I make a very modest living)) who is just as narcissistic and controlling (if not more so) than him. They, as a team, have made it their life’s work to compete with me regarding the children – and to win at all costs. I do not communicate with his wife directly, however, she has been his “puppet master” from the start. Further, he has been voluntarily unemployed for the past 11 years and completely dependent upon her for everything (including the paltry child support payments I receive), which has put him in a subservient position to her. As you can imagine, this has created an extraordinarily angry, vindictive N out of him, and since it is too risky to lash out at his wife, he lashes out at me (excessively). Had he never met her, I do believe he would have vanished from our lives. Instead, he is an angry man with time on his hands who verbally/emotionally abuses me without provocation (I never argue back, and always turn the subject to the children’s best interests). If you can offer me any advice I would greatly appreciate it. I’ve been in counseling, have read dozens of books and countless articles on the subject, and while I am managing better than I was several years ago, I am still operating under a high level of responsibility (to protect/nurture/guide my children) while feeling a very low level of control. Needless to say, I’m very anxious. Frankly, it sucks, and I want it to end.
Zari Ballard
March 5, 2016 at 6:44 pmHi Sara,
I’m assuming the children live with you so my first question is this: what’s up with the child support for the last 11 years? Have you been not getting it because he’s not employed? If so, that is BULLSHIT and I would take his ass right back to court. Second, if this woman is the main breadwinner and you feel competed with (as in “ganged up on”), then you need to be speaking with her directly. How can your ex-husband have a wife for eleven years that interacts with your children and you don’t communicate with her? While it almost seems to late to start now, I feel compelled to tell you to do so. YOU DON’T HAVE TO ACCEPT HIS ABUSE. Why are you accepting it? The minute you suspect that he’s getting verbally abusive tell him calmly to fuck off and hang up. If he strays off topic, tell him to call back when gets focused and hang up. Keep all conversations with him to a maximum of ten minutes NO MATTER WHAT. There’s nothing that you two have to speak about that can’t be said in ten minutes or under. And how often do you need to be discussing the kids with this guy? Hardly ever! What’s to discuss? Again, YOU DON’T HAVE TO ACCEPT THE ABUSE. Are the children okay? Are they good kids who do reasonably well in school? If so, then stop trying to protect them. In today’s world, 16 and 14-year old children aren’t toddlers. All you can do is worry about your own mothering. Be the best mom you can be…that’s all you can do. When the kids are away with him, enjoy the time to yourself. Stop worrying.
Look, we can’t control the behaviors of these creatures BUT WE CERTAINLY CAN CONTROL OUR REACTIONS TO IT. Why be in counseling? YOU are not the problem. Stop letting these two idiots control your emotions. The children are still alive and they will survive no matter what. Take control. Don’t waste any more time with these monsters. It’s all intimidation and how you react. If you feel angry, tell him to go to hell!!!! You don’t have to tip-toe around anybody!!! And what about child support? Good God, I hope you’ve been getting it. If not, take him to court for the arrears. I let my son’s dad slide for ten years out of intimidation (and we even had a court order) and then I pushed Arizona DCSE to think outside the box. Lo and behold the government found his name on his then-girlfriend’s (now his wife) bank account where he had been hiding his money, froze the account, and then handed me a HUGE lump sum of money. He bullied me too and I was just like you, so worried for my son blah blah…..until I said ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. You can do the same.
Stay strong, sister!
Zari xo
Lisa
April 17, 2016 at 8:47 amHi Zari,
I have departed to endure the long journey to survive and recover from 15 yrs of marriage with Narcissist husband 4 yrs ago. Still struggling here and there, but taking a small step at a time to keep on moving forward.
I have court order, state enforcement (CA) is involved, but my Narcissist ex is getting away to pay Child Support of our 2 children. State says they can’t locate him who is in Hollywood biz. I’m very much interested in how you have pushed Arizona DCSE to think outside the box (miracle to me!). I’d love to hear your story to be inspired. Thank you!
Zari Ballard
April 18, 2016 at 5:28 pmHi Lisa,
I’d be glad to give you some pointers of how I pushed child support (and you DO have to push them). In fact, the court order was from here in AZ but he then moved to California so it was between the AZ system and the CA system that I got it done over the years. It is not impossible. Contact me at this link (which goes to my personal email) and I’ll fill you in on a couple of things that I did – the steps that I took – to make sure that they found his ass and kept on it. The child support system – at least in AZ and definitely in CA – is so bogged down but I found that they really do WANT to help…they just need to be guided along. They will actually do what you tell them to, believe it or not, if it’s within their capabilities. I even created an account on the California DCSE website as well as on the AZ site so I could track what was happening from state to state. And girl, my last check came just a few years ago when my son was 24! It took some due diligence but I got every penny.
Zari xo
Zari Ballard
April 18, 2016 at 5:29 pmHi Lisa,
I gave you the wrong link! Use this one to reach me...sorry!
Alexander Bird
December 22, 2015 at 11:28 amChecking in just to say Happy Holidays. Ran into the male counter part this wek while on duty. What a case . He disrupted a party becouse he was convinced that everyone had nothing to do with teir time then talk and laugh about him. Me and my trainer kina pissed him off when we infromed him that everyone is to busy with their own lives to realy care about or talk about him. My little girl is doing good I have her for Christmas this year.
Zari Ballard
December 25, 2015 at 1:23 amHi Alexander,
Thanks for checking in and Happy Holidays to you too! I’m so glad that you have your daughter for Xmas – right on! I’m sure you’ll have a great time together.
Now, having said that…you know I’m a straight-up kind of girl and I’ve gotta lecture you for a few minutes. My hope is that I can give you, as a LEO, some food for thought. As a cop on duty, please don’t be so quick to label people that you meet as narcissists. The truth is that you won’t meet narcissists like that nor will you be able to recognize it in complete strangers. If anything – and I mentioned this a long time ago – the narcissists you meet will be your fellow cops. Narcissists are everywhere in law enforcement…I hear it day in and day out. If a guy is disrupting a party because he feels everyone there is talking about him and laughing at him, this is NOT narcissistic behavior at all. A narcissist wouldn’t even THINK of calling attention to himself (or herself) like that. It’s more a sign of paranoia, maybe schizophrenia, manic psychosis, mental problems. Of course he got pissed when you and your trainer were dismissive, telling him nobody cared about him enough to give him the time of day, let alone talk about him at all. Now, I’m sure that was true but that’s not the point. The fact is that he really thought people were talking about him and laughing at him and THAT is the REAL problem….not the fact that he was annoying a few people at a party. I’m sure by the time you two got there and started dismissing him, everybody WAS talking about and laughing at him. It’s disturbing to me that this is obviously how you are being taught to handle calls but it also shows me how disconnected law enforcement is from everything that’s important these days.
Here’s a story…my son was diagnosed with child-onset schizophrenia at the age of ten (he’s 26 now). I’m talking hearing Voices telling him to do awful things – the whole thing. We control it with medication and love. About seven years ago, I was at work and my son was home and had an relapse. He’d been symptom free for almost 6 months so this was a complete surprise. Evidently, he left the apartment and was wandering around outside, confused and scared, and had an encounter with someone who made a derogatory statement. Mind you, my son is a non-violent, very kind person who proudly calls himself a “law-abiding citizen”. from when he was little, he dreamed of being a cop or first responder but, of course, his illness has prevented all of this. Anyway, that day, this guy my son ran into didn’t like “his looks” and he called 911, threatening my son that if he moved, he’d kick his ass, blah blah. So my son, scared and hearing Voices, waited with this guy ranting and raving until two sheriffs showed up. A neighbor who saw this said the guy was just going off and the cops took him aside to get his story. My son was devastated at the thought of going to jail. He’s never been in trouble. These sheriffs could have hauled my son off based on the ranting of this guy and whatever story he was telling them and also based on my son who I’m sure didn’t look “normal” under the circumstances. But they didn’t. Instinctively, they knew it was something else and blew this guy off, felt he was being a complete dick. They took my son back to the apartment and talked to him like a normal person and my son told them he was hearing voices and everything. One of the cops tried to call me from his cell but, not recognizing the number and never even thinking there could be trouble, I didn’t answer. After an hour, they decided to take him to the hospital and they called everywhere until they found an opening. Then, of course, they called an ambulance but by that time, he had pretty much bonded with them and one of the sheriffs followed the ambulance to the hospital and then sat with him for an hour, talking to him about his illness, trying to LEARN about it. Later, I called these cops up and thanked them for being so kind to both of us. I could have been in trouble as well and I was racked with guilt for not being there and sick to death and these cops were just too fucking cool. I asked about the incident with the guy who had called and they told me it wasn’t important…that all that was important was that Sky was okay. To this day, we are grateful to those two sheriffs. For all the horrible stories I’d heard, these sheriffs renewed my faith in law enforcement. As a team, my son and I now speak to law enforcement groups as part of NAMI, to teach cops how to recognize signs of a disorder. My point is that cops need to see the bigger picture sometimes and not be so mean-on-the-spot. Of course I don’t know the whole story at all, but normal guys – and definitely NOT narcissists – don’t walk into parties thinking everyone is talking about him. I don’t care how disruptive he’s being…rather than tell him that no one cares enough about him to talk about him, why not take him aside and find out what’s really going on…why does he think that. My son happens to be a mellow, shy kind of guy with a mental disorder…but the guy that you dismissed could have been the exact opposite and have come back later to hurt someone. Who knows?
I know you just wrote to say Merry Xams, Alex, but I know you’re new to the force and if I can make you think twice the next time, it was worth me saying my peace. Remember – you won’t meet a narcissist on a call and if you do, you won’t recognize it. I know that law enforcement is under no obligation anymore to “serve and protect” the community…do you even have to say that anymore when you take an oath? But we still have to work together. You are an awesome guy and you’ll be an awesome cop. I don’t know who you’re trainer is but I already don’t like her. LOL For now, do what she says, I guess. But when you get to be on your own, promise me you’ll try to see the bigger picture, k? You have a chance to make a real difference.
Okay…enough! Have an awesome Xmas with Evelyn. It’s very cool that you get to spend it with her…Thank God for that!
Zari xo
Jason Flis
December 20, 2015 at 2:49 amI’ve been doing some extensive research on the topic of co-parenting with a narcisist recently. I must say, this is the first article/blog/product endorsement I’ve read that is severly (and dangerously) flawed. Are you a certified expert who has research and/or proof to back up the claim “no narcisist can love their child”. Are you even a phycologist? I have a narcisitic ex wife that is extremely difficult and fit wrenching to deal with. I fear for the damage done and being done emotionally/phycologically to my children by her and our toxic relationship. I do know for a fact though, she loves them. She has a disorder, though extremely destructive, she’s not a sociopath. 2 completely different disorders. They can both exist simultaneously, but it is ridiculously reckless to make false claims like that to desperate and hurt people seeking actual help and not an opinion which can further damage dealing with their issues. Much less the consequences of a person buying into that untruth and acting to distance the child from their parent unjustified. If you truly cared about that. I’m wondering if you yourself may be a sociopath just trying to take advantage of vulnerable people to sell your book. If not, and here is the irony, you yourself are absolutely a narcissist by its very definition for this manipulative and attention seeking admiration quest. Writing a book about something you are not really credible enough to claim expert status, and are acting selfishly by propagating misinformation for either fame or money. Do you have children? Do you love them if you do? You should be ashamed and take this site down, but if I’m correct, you won’t be. This will also probably never make it to the forum board for others to be warned off before you damage their already nightmare situation even further.
Zari Ballard
December 21, 2015 at 5:58 amHi Jason,
I’m happy to post your comment for everyone to see. I have never claimed to be an expert but I did spend 13-years with a narcissistic partner and I have spoken with and corresponded with hundreds upon hundreds of partners of and co-parents with narcissists and sociopaths. What other qualifications do I need in order to make my observations? And yes, I have a son – a disabled son, in fact – that I’ve raised on my own with no help from a narcissist that could have stepped up to the challenge but chose to make life difficult for us instead. All of our stories here are the same – hence, I stick by my claim that a narcissist and/or sociopath can no more love their children than they can love their spouse. I wish it were different but it’s not. If it were, none of us would be here.
If anything, it is you who should be ashamed for 1) making unprovoked judgements about a person (me) without doing your homework, and 2) for blindly defending your narcissistic/sociopathic ex-wife while at the same time admitting that you fear for the damage she has done and is still doing emotionally and psychologically to your children. Given that you commented here for the sole purpose of suggesting that I’m a sociopath for believing that narcissists don’t love their children, I would think you’d have a better argument. In other words, you haven’t proved your point. However, you did prove mine!
A narcissistic mother who emotionally and psychologically abuses her children does not “love” her children. Unfortunately, just as she views her spouse/partner, a female narcissist views her children as narcissistic supply that she can emotionally manipulate and use to get what she wants. As the father, you need be defending your children, not your ex-wife. The fact that you came here specifically to claim that narcissistic moms DO love their children yet offered no proof whatsoever and, in fact, only further validated MY claim tells me that you need to seek some help yourself. By pushing this agenda, you are teaching your children that mommy’s abuse is somehow based in love and it is NOT.
It’s unfortunate that you are so hostile because there are hundreds of wonderful and courageous women and men/co-parents here with whom you could share your experience. Please move along now and, believe me, it will be your loss.
Zari
Estela
June 23, 2016 at 1:25 pmI’m sorry I’m late with my comment, but I just wanna say this is suuuuch a good answer! We, healthy co-parents, are here to be our kids shield and take all the punches for them, because unfurtunatelly, is very hard to keep them away by law. If a co-parent is doing anything else, then is not so healthy. If this guy is exposing his kids to his ex-wife fully knowing she’s narcissistic and is defending her instead of defending the kids, and attacking people who give good advice, the level of attachment and denial is scary and is concerning for his children. I actually found your article useful and motivating. Anyone who’s a good healthy co-parent need to understand, a narcissist is here to make your life difficult and you DO NEED to detach or you’ll go crazy.
Emily
December 9, 2015 at 10:27 amI just found this site and it’s so good!! You are so spot on with this article! I was married to an N and we have two children. We have been divorced 5 years and it took me a few years to get down how to co-parent with him. The answer is very simple. There is no way to “co-parent”.
You have to parallel parent ( as I call it). You do all the parenting and shoulder all the responsibility and when the kids are with the N you just let he or she do what they are going to do. Don’t react one way or another to anything. Share what is necessary to share in the interest of your children. Any outsider looking in praises my ex and I and our “wonderful” relationship we have for our children. I am now an actress just as he was an actor when we dated and got married. I am pleasant and cordial and never speak badly about him in public or in any places it would get back to him.
I don’t do any of this for him. I do it for my children. The payoff is that he doesn’t get anything from me that feeds his narcisisstic needs so he has moved on to other victims. He also rarely intervenes anymore with our children which is what he used to do frequently as it would get me to lash out at him and give him the responses he so craves.
All narcissists care about is what “other” people think of them. It used to bother me that people thought he was a good father and person. It doesn’t anymore. I don’t care. The only people that matter are my children and they are seeing who he is without any direction or encouragement from me. As it should be!
Your article here can help so many single parents struggling with how to deal with a N they share children with. I wish I had found it years ago! Let it go! Let it all go. A lot of what we go through after being discarded is grapple with our egos. We want the N to feel badly at our hands just like we felt badly at theirs! The big problem with this is they are not capable of those emotions. You are wasting your time and energy. If he/she has a new partner – good luck! If they pawn their kids off on babysitters during their allotted time – their loss! If they question your parenting – good! It’s when my Ex N starts agreeing with the things that I do that will get me worrying.
I greet my ex N’s new girlfriends (or victims as I call them to myself) with kindness and a smile because sadly I know what lays in wait for them. And I walk away ecstatic that I no longer need to deal with any of it!!
Janet
April 20, 2016 at 1:00 pmThank you for sharing. I’m still confused btwn a N or sociopath. Nevertheless, my ex is one or both. I was with him since I was 19, 3 children later and 20+ yrs in, I finally had enough. I was so numb and just going thru life that I didn’t even recognize the signs. I knew I was unhappy and depressed. I knew I only stayed with him all those yrs for the children and for the sake of being a divorce statistic but everyone reaches they boiling point. It has been 5 yrs since I left him. 3 yrs since our divorce has been final but I am still back and forth in court with him. Not fighting for anything new just getting him to follow the divorce agreement. Aside, from the legal issues, the one thing that upsets me the most is how he uses our children just to get me mad or back at me for leaving him (the victim as he calls himself). The courts are no help. The reason I finally left him is bec he was arrested for the molestation of our 15yr old (at that time) daughter’s friend. His mother has a lot of money, hired the best criminal lawyer in NJ and was acquitted on all 4 charges. Sad thing is, this wasn’t the only victim there were 2 others but they did not want to press charges. DYFS found there were no reasons to keep him from his own children. I do not believe he has done anything to them. My daughters are now 20 and 16. I went thru hell and back with my 20 yr when she was going thru her teenage years. Whatever parenting I did, he undid. He basically would let her do anything she wanted. She had no boundaries and no rules. What teenager wouldn’t want that? Now that she’s 20, she has since realized the manipulation her father was doing but now I am going thru this with my 16 yr old. The 16 yr old feels her father can do no wrong. He makes her feel sorry for him and she falls for it. For the past couple of months my ex was trying to co-parent with me, was communicating on the whereabouts of our daughter and checking in on her but I knew it was only bec he was trying to be nice and hoped I wouldn’t take him back to court. He still has the marital home which he was supposed to refinance into his own name. The refinance was to be done by Aug 2014 and if he couldn’t secure one, he was to sell the home. He’s been playing the court system for over 3 yrs now and using stall tactics to keep the house. Well he was served with court papers just last week and now all the fake co-parenting is out the door again. My 16 yr old is dating a boy who will be 19 next month. He’s not in college and works in a kitchen. My 16 yr old, prior to meeting this boy, was an honor roll student. Now she is failing a class and getting a D in another. She asks to stay longer at her father’s house bec there she is allowed to see this boy. I have primary custody, she only goes there every other weekend. It is hard to instill discipline when it’s taken away every other weekend. I’m the bad guy for not letting her date someone out of high school! You would think I would be a pro having dealt with this same situation with the older daughter but I’m not! It’s exhausting. Some days I can deal with it with a level head and other days I’m just beside myself on how he could care less about his daughter’s well being just to be vindictive and letting her do whatever just to upset me! UGH!!!!