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A narcissist will always return to an ex-lover to ensure that his narcissistic supply still pines for him and that she never moves on from the pain he has caused her. Referred to as the hoover (or, as I like to call it, The Hoovering, because, to me, it smacks of a scary movie!), this return is very deliberate and typically won’t occur until the narcissist has been gone just slightly longer than the time before. By timing these reappearances perfectly, the narcissist conditions his victim to not only expect him to come back but also to expect him to come back at a much later date, thus giving him more play time in the interim. All of this is part of the narcissist’s control/validate tactic which, in turn, is all a part of the process of managing down our expectations of the relationship so that we expect less and less and he gets away with more. It’s such a subtle conditioning that victims often don’t even know it’s happening…like a horror show coming soon whether you like it or not.
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As you know, a hoover usually follows a silent treatment (which is really a break-up in disguise, by the way) and comes long after the victim has been completely devastated by the silence. The narcissist may hoover in several different ways and for various reasons, with each hoovering event staged according to that pathological relationship agenda that all narcissists live by.
For example, a narcissist may 1) come back full-on by simply showing up and expecting to pick up right where he left off without a single repercussion, OR 2) not quite ready to return but still wanting you to prepare for the possibility, he’ll begin hoovering with a sporadic text or an email or he’ll ring your phone (hanging up before you answer) from either his number or one he knows you’ll recognize and associate with him. With the second type of hoover, any attempts on your part to return the text, call, or email will likely go unanswered because the intention here is not to actually communicate with you but rather to warm you up to the situation…to get you feeling anxious, confused, and maybe even quietly excited about his possible return.
Whichever tactic he uses, the narcissist’s intention is to keep your mind spinning with “what-if’s” so that you never even get a chance to move on. Again, as part of his agenda, this manipulative behavior lays the groundwork for the next discard which, of course, will come faster (after his return) and with far more crippling intensity than all the discards before it. This agenda – which all victims of narcissist abuse are familiar with – is described in great detail in my book When Love Is a Lie. Nothing a narcissist ever does is random and that’s a fact.
For my narcissist ex, changing cell numbers before a return (and arming himself with a ridiculous excuse as to why he did it) became his preferred tactic for erasing his tracks. This tactic caused me a great deal of anxiety and sleepless nights and I even created a name it – The Cell Phone Game. It took many years to figure it out but I finally concluded that the timing of each number change and subsequent hoover was directly related to the condition of his relationships and the direction that he felt he had to run. Of course he never admitted to this, but I am confident to this day that my theory was spot-on. For 13-years, if he wanted to return, new numbers were not only part of the hoover with me but also a way to disappear from someone else. Like any good narcissist, he knew exactly how to do it and I’m sure you’ll find that it sounds familiar.
Anywhere from 2-weeks to 3-months after a deafening silence, the hoovering would begin. If my ex intended to return full-on, he’d simply text out-of-the-blue from his new cell number, asking to meet me for a drink (and, sadly, those were the only times he’d ever take me out). If he was just testing the waters and not quite ready for me to have his new number, he’d hoover by giving my phone just a single ring from odd numbers around town belonging to businesses and payphones – numbers that no one in the world except me would ever recognize on a Caller ID. In essence, he’d be counting on me to recall those numbers as the random numbers he used to call me from when we were together and he had no phone at all! And he was right… I always recognized them and felt instant anxiety. Again, nothing a narcissist does is ever random. Everything is a strategy. With my ex, I’m sure that the odd locations from where he’d call me when he had no phone (while we were together) became a way to set the the stage for future hoovering when he didn’t want me to know his new number. And I’m sure that his nonchalant disinterest in taking me out during the good times had much to do with his planning for future hoovers where just a single text (out-of-the-blue) requesting a “date” was all that was needed to grab my attention. Sound far-fetched...or does it sound familiar?
If you remember nothing else from this article, remember this: a narcissist only hoovers and/or returns to ensure that you never move on from the pain he has caused you. No matter what he tells you, this is the only reason. A narcissist’s intention, after all, is to always keep you in the queue, ready and waiting alongside all the others (and there are always others). Hoovers are stuffed with lies and future-fakery and downright bullshit. It’s a sick game of cat and mouse that will steal years from your life if you allow it. At some point we have to simply say “That’s enough” and refuse to be there when the narcissist returns.
No Contact is the key to escaping The Hoovering and the narcissist’s life-long plan for you. It’s also the only opportunity you’ll ever have for breaking the codependency to hope that the narcissist counts on you to cling to while he’s gone. Remember, the narcissist is never worried about what you’re doing while he’s gone or that you’ve found a better love because he’s conditioned you to wait for him…to wait for the hoover.
It’s time to ignore the subtle signs of hoovering and get on with your life. No one has a right to manipulate our emotions and it should never be acceptable to any of us. By enabling the narcissist’s behaviors, we set ourselves up to fail each and every time and we deserve better. Say “no more” and mean it! Remain committed to No Contact and to creating your happiness. I, for one, know you can do it!
Stay strong and I’m here to support you….
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Colleen
May 16, 2016 at 1:48 pmHi Zari,
I am a year into no contact but about to go back to Family Court because of a loophole he found in the Child Support Order. He hasn’t tried contacting me because he is with a new supply who made sure to keep him in check. He has never met his (now two yrs old) son. We parted 3 months into my pregnancy (he had started a relationship with her) and right after birth we were in court for finances. He’s never tried to see his son. In the beginning we were civil as he went behind her back to contact me. Even cried to me on the phone for 45 minutes about his dead cat but not once asked how his son or I was. This is the part that throws me off… My therapist and anyone educated on this personality type has said that he will be back. It’s been an entire year. He has not tried to make contact as he’s moved in with her and her son from a previous relationship. However, we are about to see each other in court. She will be there as she always accompanies him to ensure no contact (she even demanded I use postal mail for any reimbursement of bills etc so that she can open & check it first). My point is, it’s been an entire year. Aren’t I safe? I mean, yes, we are going to court because of him, but I cannot imagine that he will even try to contact me again. It seems that me having his son (like he’s deathly afraid to meet him but one time said he’d like to start with pictures because he ‘wasn’t ready’) and him smearing me to his family sealed the deal? No? I feel like any time we have to enter court, no matter how much time has gone by, I am opening the wound. Like he just won’t let it heal.
Is this all part of the plan? Isn’t there a time when his miserable self will move on with her and leave me alone?
Zari Ballard
June 11, 2016 at 3:37 amHi Colleen,
I don’t know if court already happened…if it did, let me know an update. I’m not sure what you are asking me, girl, because except for the family court date and the loophole, what he is doing? You say, I feel like any time we have to enter court, no matter how much time has gone by, I am opening the wound. Like he just won’t let it heal.
Is this all part of the plan? Isn’t there a time when his miserable self will move on with her and leave me alone? But I thought he WAS leaving you alone. And I don’t know what you mean by “safe”. If he hasn’t contacted you in a year, I would say that, in your mind, it should be over. His new girl is obviously holding on tight and this makes it quite a bit harder to keep anyone else in the queue. I’m not saying it’s impossible…just a little harder and, honestly, narcissists are really not that motivated to chase us when it’s not convenient. How can he hurt you if you don’t let me hurt you?
Going to court is not opening a wound…it’s just taking care of business. What “loophole” did he find? I’d like to know that…child support and all that is pretty straight forward. He’s the dad, he pays. If he doesn’t want to see the child, good. You can do it alone…I did and so do millions of others.
Go to court and don’t even look in his direction. Do what you have to do for your child and just continue on. Dealing with her is a helluva lot better than dealing with him…she’ll make sure all the paperwork gets taken care of just to avoid you two having to speak. It definitely looks like he’s long moved on so I would leave things as they are stop worrying about it. Just make sure you get the money you deserve. He’s not deathly afraid of seeing his son at all. He just doesn’t want YOU to make the “daddy” connection.
Good luck in court…please send an update so we can know what happened:)
Zari xo
C
June 12, 2016 at 5:33 amMy question about being safe was referring to the narcissistic behavior of coming back. I meant aren’t we passed that point that he will not ever try to come back? From here, at this point in healing, I feel like I’m always going to be vulnerable.
He blurted out in court that I am abusive and unstable managing to redirect the fact that we were there for his manipulation. Even though I had a whole list of notes I was caught off guard and speechless that the judge took his bait. She suggested he get a restraining order against me. He said he tried but it was not granted. The judge said ‘yes, because you NEED proof’. Toward the end of the circus she asks how many times he visits his son. He shrugged his shoulders. She asked ‘you’ve never even met your own son?!?’ He spewed out the seemingly rehearsed ‘I do not wish to pursue custody’ to which she commented ‘you don’t care? You have to care, no?’ He assured her like the narcissist he is that indeed, he cared. Before we left she told us the date we are to return. He asked why we had to return. She said ‘TO MAKE SURE YOU PAY!!!’
The loopholes were: The court documents did not specify (in their listing of retroactive payments) that daycare costs were to be included. So even though it was understood he insisted we go back for clarification. Then he filed for modification, a decrease in the monthly amount, claiming his salary decreased but knowing he wouldn’t qualify because it did not meet the percentage decreased. We went back and within 2 minutes left after the judge said he did not qualify.
The court ordered his wages garnished for the standard 17%. However the court also ordered medical & daycare expenses be dealt with between us because the courts did not have the capacity to record keep for that. So, he’d bait me into contacting him (by not sending a check or having me turned away at his bank when I presented it) and then tell me I was going against his wishes & that he’d get an order of protection since I just couldn’t stop contacting him. His girlfriend seems to be on his level of dysfunction, coming to every court date and I’m sure, coming up with half this ridiculousness.
Seeing him is still difficult for me and in a fit of (baited) anger at one point I told him so. With that and this last bit of control he has, I feel like this is why he continues to find loopholes bringing us back to court. And the courts do not acknowledge such games.
So my question is…when does it stop? When will it all be done? I’m afraid of being caught off guard. When does the Narc finally move on?
Zari Ballard
June 12, 2016 at 3:36 pmHi C,
Well, the good news is that it sounds to me like he’s definitely moved on as far as the relationship goes. If that’s what you mean by “safe”, I honestly don’t think you have to worry about that ever again. He won’t be back for that. And, based on what you just described took place in that courtroom, I don’t see how the judge fell for the bait at all. At first it may have seemed that way but after a few questions asked by the judge (for now, I’ll refer to the judge as ‘she”) and his subsequent responses and then her responses to that, it sounds as if things turned out in your favor. The judge suggesting he get a restraining order was the only response she could have possibly given to the ridiculousness he was spewing. She can’t call him a liar…that’s not her place. You know he’s a liar but the judge doesn’t…she doesn’t know either of you…so she was basically telling him, “If she’s so bad then I suggest you get a restraining order” to which his response that he couldn’t get one prompted her to basically say, “Yeah that’s because you need PROOF, that’s why, and it’s obvious you don’t have it!” What else could she do right then? Then, he tried to get modification and that was turned down and then the judge requested that you both return to ensure that child support is being paid. What is it about all that that you are unhappy about? If it’s about the medical, the judge explained that the courts don’t record-keep for that but no court does, C. The only thing that the the courts can enforce is child support and alimony (if it’s a divorce) and that’s it. If he doesn’t pay child support, believe me, he’ll be in trouble eventually. I went through all that and AZ Child Support eventually got me every last penny of arrears with the last payment coming when my son was 23 years old. But there were legal fees that I was awarded and other stuff that I just never got because it can’t be enforced. In retrospect, it makes sense to me that courts DON’T record keep for every little thing that parents can’t work out. That would be insane and there aren’t enough caseworkers to even do that. It’s not the court’s fault that we had children with these bastards. Consequently, other than child support, the rest is up to the parents to work out whether it’s on the paperwork or not. Of course, you can always take him back to court to complain that he’s not paying the medical, daycare, or whatnot but all the judge will be able to do is scold him and set another court date hoping that eventually he’ll get sick of court and just pay it. So, unless you left out a big piece of the courtroom story, I would absolutely say that you came out the winner. Moreover, and this is very important sister: it’s FOR THE BEST that you did NOT get to air your list of grievances or you would have looked just as bad as he did. Judges get very irritated by couples who go to court and argue personal stuff…(she harasses me, calls me names, badgers me at work, blah blah, he does this or that). It’s not their job to solve that. I learned that damn quick in my divorce/custody battle. I learned to just stand there, saying nothing, while he talked like an idiot just like your ex did. It was all I could do to keep from screaming in the courtroom but my lawyer warned me and he was right. So a word from the wise, saying nothing automatically puts you in a better light NO MATTER WHAT HE IS SAYING. I guarantee that you being the quiet one is why things turned out in your favor. If you had spoken out like you wanted to, the judge would have thought…”Hmmm…she’s just as bad as he is. Might as well give him the modification”. Do you understand that? So be grateful that you didn’t get your chance to speak! Another bit of good news is that you will get the same judge next time, so if you do the same, refraining from going off on how bad he is, you will win again. Let him talk all he wants. Judges are not stupid. They’ve seen it all.
So, will this nightmare ever end? Sure, when your son turns eighteen. This is all about him not wanting to pay for a kid he doesn’t care about and a girlfriend who enables his behavior…that’s what this is. It doesn’t sound like it has anything to do with him wanting to get back with you. Unfortunately, you are the mother and the ex and the one who ultimately is getting his money and he’s not happy about that. What deadbeat dad ever is? This kind of shit happens even when the ex who is your child’s father ISN’T a narcissist! With narcissists it’s obviously worse because they can no more be a good parent than they can be a good partner. It just is what it is.
Aside from just learning to deal with it until your son is eighteen like zillions of other women (and men) have had to do, there’s always the option of asking him to give up his parental rights. He might even do it and that would end it once and for all for you. No more going to court, no more having to contact him or him contact you. It would be done. You’d definitely be “safe” after that. Otherwise, stop allowing him to intimidate you. Since he isn’t seeing your son regularly or at all even, as far as I see it, you don’t even have to pick up the phone or respond to a text. Ignore him and continue with your life. From what I see, you have the upper hand all around. Sure, his existence on this planet is a nuisance but he can only bother you if you allow it. We can’t control the behaviors of these creatures…only our reactions to it.
Good luck, girl!
Zari:)
Jennifer
May 10, 2016 at 1:38 amVery insightful, thank you for that introspection. I know that I am not the same person after just over 3 years with an N.
My last straw, hopefully, is that the last time I saw him, he physically tried to keep me from leaving his apartment. First he sat on my feet and put his chest in my knees to keep me from standing up off his couch, then he chest blocked me backwards after I was able to stand, then he grabbed me by the arms to hold me in place, of course able to overpower me, all the while screaming vicious, terrible things in my face that were untrue. Such as that I was really the asshole all along and I am just like all of his other “fake” friends and that he would be moving out of the state because I am just so mean to him. All the while I was trying to calmly get away from him, I didn’t know if I could get out of the apartment successfully, and taking out my cell to call for help is out of the question as he would have just grabbed it out of my hand as he has a few times prior. My hands were obviously shaking and my voice was cracking. This was the first time that I was actually scared, very scared, of him, for my own physical safety and if he was going to hurt me and if I would be able to escape.
I did escape, with him yelling at top volume at 3 am, no doubt waking all of his neighbors at the same time, but he did not care because he is right and I am wrong, everyone who would hear this would undoubtedly agree with him, that has been the truth of it for 3 years. Any type of issue that he may admit to causing has always been blamed on me because I “made” him do that or “forced” his hand or left him no other choice.
Because of this newfound fear, he has never been physically violent prior, I am really hoping to stay No Contact this time. For the last 48 hours the barrage of emails has not stopped, not him admitting fault, but his blaming me for how “mean” I have been to him, how it’s my fault he has stopped eating and not gotten out of bed, how I am forcing him to suffer. Nevermind that he put his hands on me, bruised my arms, pushed me back to keep me from leaving, blocked my path to the door. That I clearly MADE him do as he has no control over his own actions.
This time I was truly scared and I really hope I can keep up the NC, he IS dangerous, but I have never let it escalate that far in the past, then again he has never physically assaulted me before and that can only get worse if I were to let him back in, unfortunately.
Some quotes from his newest emails, this probably sounds very familiar to other victims out there! “thanks for traumatizing me yet again”, “Nothing justifies how you treat me”, “It’s all my fault that you were mean to me???”, “You’re just using me anyway… like all of my other no good friends do… I deserve better than this…”, ” sadly I have to change without you in my life… I don’t want to… yet I don’t want to keep being hurt by you… and you just don’t understand…”, “I don’t know what else to do… but you really need to accept responsibility for pushing me away pushing me away”, “I cannot take the pain anymore… you will just keep abusing me if I stay I will keep letting you come back… because I love you…”, “It is VERY traumatizing because I love you so much and you just keep hurting me”, and the cherry on the cake, “I need love and healing… please no more meanness and cruelty from you… I did nothing to hurt you… please STOP hurting me… I love you xxxooo.”
Any of that sound familiar? I’ve got 3 years worth of this type of N created dramatic fiction. Thanks for reading.
private
April 25, 2016 at 7:45 pmDear Zari
I send you blessings and gratitude. I have read all of your posts. I have been in therapy for thirteen years and in Alonon for six years. It took me that long to discover that I was raised by narcissists and that my father had sociopathic tendencies. I endured a lot of forms of abuse and I was not aware of the fact that I was dating unstable men. I always blamed the men but it was only during my recovery that I realized that I was choosing these men and that I had to step blaming them. Just when I thought things were getting better I chose a man and discovered that he is by all means a narcissist. He discarded me cruelly last week. I was diagnosed with a life threatening blood disease (immune disorder) and I do believe that it is was do to stress. I overcame the severe stage because I do not need blood or platelets but my hemoglobin and platelet levels still aren’t normal. I met a man who was pressing me for children and he is a doctor no less. I told him that there is a risk of relapse or even death if I have a child. I blame myself for procrastinating seeing a doctor for surrogate child as he pressed upon me to do for nine months because I thought it too risky. Well I will not get into details but he said,m “well if you cant have a baby can we be friends and if I don’t find the right woman can I come back and marry you? When I refused to back down he finally said what do you want to do? Do you want to adopt? He did not call me for several days and called as though nothing happened. These were the signs 1 texting me constantly asking me where I was 2 professing love too quickly 3 speaking of his x as though she were crazy and I said to myself, “Oh my this man is a narcissist.” And here i am renting an apartment from my family. I still get flashbacks but I need to save enough money to move. All i can say is God bless you. You reach out to all these people. You have given me great wisdom. I am aware of this now. He is also a hoarder. He lives in this three story house but choosed to live on the bottom floor an I
(crazy as I still am as a caretaker) cleaned the entire place out. I discovered that you were right. He did not want to come to my house no…He kept saying that he did not want to drive to work early from Staten Island to Queens. No he wanted control. I read that hoarders do not always have OCD but can also be narcissists because they do it for attention and control. Many of the things you said shined light on the situation. I will purchase that book once I settle things with my account. God Bless
Wounded and Ill
April 4, 2016 at 6:08 pmZari,
You’re even more spot on as time goes by–incredible.
Yes, everything you say is true of me and him.
However, I DID block him on my phone. Yet his texts are there to come thru, because blocking only stops the notification. However, when I check other peoples’ texts, I see his, too.
But let’s be brutally honest: YES, somehow I do still want to see what he has to say.
As for Facebook, email, ets., we never had each others’ social media or mail (HOWEVER, last year his Facebook was a huge fight for us, because I’d yelled at him for not inviting me and posting me as his girlfriend (HUH, wonder WHY??!! SARCASM…. ). He claimed that he’d just delete his FB (but he still gets notifications. I mentioned it again, and he claimed it’s because He “did delete the damned Facebook, but it still notifies” him. Yeah, okay. And that is a prime example of his Managing Down My Expectations and My Not Wanting another Confrontation, even when I knew the truth.
As for his “silent treatment”:
Last Wednesday when he turned the tables on me like never before and murdered me for good, by taunting me, withholding sex and destryoing me, I WAS THE ONE WHO RAN OFF< LEFT< AND BROKE UP WITH HIM.
This is exactly how it happens every time.
He provokes chaos, then I LEAVE.
On Wednesday thru Friday he cussed and abused me in the worst ways (as always).
By Friday night he apologized profusely and by Saturday he begged me to return to him.
He even used my upcoming custody court of this Wednesday and me needing him to go with me (we had previuosly plAnned for him to support me at court–WHICH IS PROBABLY AMONG THE REASONS HE PULLED THE HUGE CHAOS MOVE LAST WEDNESDAY, SO THAT HE WOULDN'T HAVE TO GO WITH ME).
Since Saturday, Sunday, Monday (today), he's been texting AND calling and leaving voicemails, begging me to come back. GET THIS: HE EVEN TOTALLY PRETENDS WE NEVER BROKE UP. HE TEXTS ME THESE MESSAGES, SAYING HE CANNOT MARRY SOMEONE WHO KEEPS RUNNING AWAY EVERY TIME SHE DOESNT GET HER WAY AND THAT IF I WANT HIM TO MARRY ME, AS WE TALKED ABOUT, I MUST IMMEDIATLY CALL HIM TO DISCUSS THIS (sickooooo).
Then when I continue to ignore him, he texts about how he's on his way to the healthstore (MY favorite–he could care less about health food) and that if I want to join him, I MUST call him NOW, or else he'll have to go without me.
When I still ignore, he texts that (and GET THIS): He simply cannot put up with this bullshit and that he'll have to break up with me if I don't change my ways (if I wasn't so deeply depressed, this would be comical).
Then he'll switch gears and text that he never meant to hurt my feelings last Wednesday (that's "all" he did? "Just hurt" my feelings???!! He actually destroyed me) and that he's sorry and that next time he'll be careful because I'm sensitive.
Wow.
And before you berate me for not fully or properly blocking him (you do have that right), please remember your own position when you first went NC.
BTW:
Reading an glued to your WONDERFUL BOOKS. LOVE LOVE THEM.
Zari Ballard
April 8, 2016 at 11:01 pmWounded & Ill wrote…And before you berate me for not fully or properly blocking him (you do have that right), please remember your own position when you first went NC.
I’m sure you didn’t mean that statement to sound as it sounds but I still have to respond to it for the sake of others who see it. The truth is that I don’t “berate” anybody about anything here and I certainly don’t need to be reminded of my own position at any time during my relationship. Moreover, I don’t presume to have a “right” to “berate” anyone even if I wanted to (which I don’t). I simply call it as I see it and the fact is that you wrote to me several posts back in what appeared to be dire straights, asking for the books (which I sent), and asking for my help. You described an absolute MONSTER, far worse than many of the narcs and sociopaths described on this website…a man who you believe hates you so much that he might have killed you. In fact, in your first two posts you use words such as “murder”, “destroy”, “kill”, “die”, “rape”, “sexually traumatize” and so forth to describe his action and intention and by the third post, I’m thinking Why is this douchebag still able to contact her??. This guy seems to be ALL ABOUT the texting as a means of control and if you want to at least TRY to distance yourself, that part has to end. You can do whatever you want but I’m always going to tell you like it is.
My mission here is to try to help others from making the same mistakes that I did, dragging out the nonsense for 13-years. What a complete waste of time it all is and life is so horribly short to begin with. And the experience I speak from is no more important than anyone else’s…I just happened to be one of those who created a website and wrote a few books about it that’s all. When it was happening to me, I would have done anything to have someone tell me straight up what would happen if I did this or didn’t do that. So that’s what I do. I make predictions all day long and, from what I’m told, I’ve never been wrong. It’s not because I’m psychic or smarter than others or have the inside scoop…it’s because the narc/spath is PREDICTABLE. When we’re in it up to our chins, it’s hard to see the predictability AND THIS IS BECAUSE THE NARC LIKES TO KEEP US DISTRACTED BY CONSTANT TEXTS AND LIES AND FUTURE-FAKING AND SILENT TREATMENTS. THE NARC DOES THIS ON PURPOSE..TO KEEP US CONFUSED AND ADDICTED TO THE VERY DRAMA THAT WE HATE. Therefore, by exposing his bullshit, I GET TO BE THE NARCISSIST OR SOCIOPATH’S WORST FUCKING NIGHTMARE.
While we have no control over other people’s behaviors, we really do have total control over our reactions to it.
Stay strong!
Zari:)
Wounded and Ill
April 10, 2016 at 9:52 amNo, I didn’t mean that way and I did specify that, so you wouldn’t take it the wron way.
I was very extremely thankful and appreciative (and still am) at your generosity with the books.
However, after reading your latest response, i was just as extremely taken aback–so much so, in fact, that I waited SEVERAL days before responding, as I am now.
Sites such as these are for very wounded, sad people like all of us here, because we are like children who are just finding our way(some are more or less advanced, but we are still hurt and hoping to find a way out and to become better-learned people).
HENCE, WE DO NOT NEED OR DESERVE JUDGEMENT, IN ANY FORM.
Yet JUDGEMENT is what I got from your latest response–that, and a need for you to SAVE FACE with your readers. You even stated it, yourself.
Your first and foremost priority was to save face, not give valuable advice and kindness and lack of judgement.
I do not appreciate that.
Listen, I do not claim and never will claim to be “wisest of them all.”
That’s the reason I came here–hoping for a place of patience, sound advice, and some little bit of sympathy.
Before I wrote a single word, I read a few comments that sounded pretty lame/ But I saw that you never judged those people. Hence, I thought I was safe.
So in my own comments I revealed that perhaps I didn’t completely block him or go NC as I should have. And that’s wrong of me.
BUT FOR ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSES HERE, AT THIS SITE, WHO GIVES A FLIP??!!
Aren’t we here to help each other and not sit in the seat of jugement or even sound as if we are?
WOW, Zari.
We talk about our experiences with Narcissism.
Isn’t that what you may slightly be guilty of, when your first and foremost objective was to save face with your readers and to make it known that you whatever, whatever, whatever (AND PUT ME IN MY PLACE)?
Nevermind.
Thank you for the books.
I will continue to read them, as I find them valuable.
But I’ll excuse myself from this particular site.
Perhaps one size does not fit all.
No hard feelings.
And again, thank you for your initial help and kindness–I will always appreciate it.
Zari Ballard
April 13, 2016 at 5:25 pmDear Wounded & Ill,
Well then I guess things have been misunderstood on both ends and I am sorry for that. I responded because I wanted you to understand something not because I wanted to “save face” about anything. If I wanted to “save face”, I could have just as easily not posted our conversation. It was the use of the word “berate” that I took offense to, that’s all, and I made a point of saying that you probably didn’t mean that. However, I’m just a regular person and it did put me on the defensive. I wanted you to understand that if I reiterate the importance of blocking it’s not to berate you but to remind you. No body has a right to berate – or judge – anybody in this life. I guess the best response from me should have been no response but given the precarious nature of your situation, it’s hard for me to say nothing. When it comes to narcissism in relationships, I feel we need to be straight-up with each other. I don’t see how sugar-coating anything does any good when we’re trying to understand what’s happening. But judging and berating…that’s not my purpose here.
I’m sorry that we misunderstood each other. I wish for you nothing but the best. Please stay strong and let this animal go. His “bad” is as good as it gets. Life is so short and years fly by so fast. He’ll waste your precious time until the END of time if you allow it. You deserve to shine and be happy and only you can make that happen:)
Zari xo
Greg
April 14, 2016 at 6:23 amIt sounds as though you’re in an emotional state where you aren’t ready for and/or very sensitive to criticism, since you are still hurting and probably got enough put downs from the narc. It will get better. I’m at the stage (as you can tell by my comments) that I’m glad she’s out of my life. You will get there too.
Zari Ballard
April 15, 2016 at 6:54 pmHi Greg,
Emotional about what? 3 1/2 years out, life is very good. This blog is here so that we can all learn from each other and hopefully not make the same mistakes. It also serves as validation and confirmation for those who had no idea what they were dealing with. Like so many others here, my story is proof that there is life after the narc and it can be better than ever. Perhaps you’re not quite there yet but you will be too….
Zari:)
Wounded and Ill
March 31, 2016 at 9:17 amZari,
I need your help.
I am very ill this morning.
I don’t know how I drove back, yesterday, after all of that.
Yes, he came back, but only to finish me off, this time.
I and I fell for it all.
And when he did finish me off, it was abrupt and without warning (except for all of the many, many red flags that I again seen but again chose to ignore).
Any way you can do phone consultations and send me your books?
I do not have the money, but I am in sever pain–very tremendous pain.
Wounded and Ill
March 31, 2016 at 9:07 amZari,
Please help me.
I am extremely wounded and sick.
He did all of things you say–to the T.
After a year and a half, when I’d finally detached, he called me and (due to my sexual addiction and hurt and obsession with a new guy) I went back to him (in desperation).
And then he made all these new “promises” of a new home, he used the sexual moves that I loved and craved—but then, yesterday, completely left me high and dry sexually and told me he hates doing those sexual moves for me.
He wanted to just fvck me dry.
I became desperate and took marijuana, had a horrible reaction, started sobbing and begging for sexx (the first time I’d ever done that!!!) and he said okay, but that he did not want to “give it to me sexually” but hes do it as a favor.
It was the most degrading, sickening, painful thing ever (and I been thru a LOT before in my life, but this was the WORST!!).
Afterwards, despite feeling so attached and codependent, i then left him mid ejaculation (so he knows how it feels) and, under the influence, I shakily drove home.
I was ill at home and still, today, I am ill, so ill.
He has been texting me repeatedly, saying he changed the locks, he will calll police, cussing me, and more(All the same things he has a done a million times before).
I don’t think I can recover from this one.
My pain is too much.
Yeah, I see a shrink, but she is of no help.
I really need your book.
Please.
But I am broke, broker than broke.
But please, can you send me your book for free?
I need to learn.
And I am desperate.
Zari Ballard
April 2, 2016 at 12:51 amHi Wounded,
I sent my books in PDF format to the email that you used to post here. I hope you find them helpful and validating. Let me know how your doing, girl, and stay strong….
Zari:)
Wounded and Ill
April 2, 2016 at 4:26 amZari,
Thank you immensely for your reply.
Your knowledge is uncanny.
Even while I initially read your articles here, the sociopath was and is Hovering.
I mean, he always did do that during his previous discards, but in this final Nd most traumatic discard, he was and is now doing it again.
With you, yours would use the random phone numbers as “Your Song.”
In my case, the sociopath uses my old angry voicemails as “our Song.”
What he does is text me 4 days days worth of horrible insults, cussing, and other abuse.
On the fifth day hell apologize and apologize some more.
On the fifth night hell text me my old angry voicemails, as his way of saying that I made mistakes too, so I should forgive him.
Bullshit!!
This last discard was the murder.
He had planned this all along. And this time he meant to destroy and finish me off.
Yesterday I was so ill, that I checked myself into treatment.
The woman there said that he’s not just a narcissist, but a full blown sociopath and that eventually he would have lost it and literally killed me.
I agreed. Either he’d have killed me or I would have died.
And this time, there is no option of going going back to him at any point for any reason.
What he did this time, showed me how much he secretly hated me and how immensely dangerous and sinister he is.
He used my my sexual addiction against me, withheld sex after he took me to the edge, then told me how much he couldn’t stand me–all this, literally six minutes after he had sweetly texted me to come home so that he could “rock my world and do all the things” I loved him to do to me.
Hot and freezing cold in only a matter of six minutes.
After I left, high on edible weed (because of the horrible devastation) and drove back to my own home totally high and sobbing, I broke up with Jim.
The abusive texts started only seconds after that and continued for five days.
Now he’s in the hovering stage.
Zari,
I’m literally wounded and sick, still.
This time there is no return, even if I wanted (which I don’t). “Return” is an option that does not exist.
AND, he did all this after I gave him all of my trust, after I fell back into love with him,matter I constantly bought him groceries and got him all the other things that he liked. After I did so much for him.
How does any man, ANYONE ever destroy and kill a good, decent, wonderful woman?..
If I were a man, I would do anything on Earth to at least keep the one and only one woman who did so much for me, was more than willing to have sex with me, and was loyal and always there!!
So I don’t get it…????
Anyways, I am deeply tore up and hurt.
Betrayal so swift and unreedeemable.
I blocked him, yes.
But his texts come through regardless.
He won’t call. But he will text.
His texts have slowed down and petered out, almost.
But now he is in the hover stage.
I truly wish he would go away and disappear.
During previous discards, I always wished for him to return.
But now I really wish for him to leave me the hell alone.
I’m in so much pin Nd I’m so bitter and sick Nd ill.
And I cano thank you enough for your books and your kindness.
Thank you so much, Zaria.
P.S.
Do these DEMONS roll of an assembly line?.,,
They are EXACTLY as you and everyone else, online, describe.
To the very letter!
Zari Ballard
April 2, 2016 at 4:50 amHi Wounded,
Even my thinking has evolved since writing the book and corresponding and talking with literally 100’s if not 1000’s of people just like you and me. This is what I’ve concluded (in a nutshell) about these monsters:
1. Every day, all day, it’s all about what they can get away with. That’s it. This is why they lie even when the truth is a better story. To a narcissist/sociopath, it’s easier to lie 24/7 than to have to come up with a story every once in awhile…so they just lie all the time. If they can actually get away with it (which they usually do) they step it up.
2. A narc/sociopath sees EVERYONE on the same emotional level…meaning he cares no more about you than he does about his friends, his coworkers, his family, or even the girl at the grocery store who bagged his groceries. This is why he can leave us w/o blinking an eye. He just walks in and out of compartments telling lies (or what we need to hear so that he gets what he wants), having sex, blowing us off…whatever he feels like! But we really do mean NOTHING. What crippled me was thinking that he loved me but still could hurt me. When I realized that I was no more important to him than the teller who cashes his check, I felt free. I’ve concluded that while we’re not anymore important than anyone else in his life, we are, however, the most convenient and THAT is what he hates to give up.
As for the assembly line, I see it that way. These people are the defective product that got chucked off the evolution assembly line yet still found a way out of the factory and into the general population. They know how to read people and to mimic emotions and this is the con.
Now, while all sociopaths are narcissists, not every narc is a sociopath. Narcissism is the foundation and the thing that separates a narc from a sociopath from a psychopath is THE LEVEL OF MOTIVATION TO BE EVIL. For me, this is where I see the scales tip from one label to the next.
If you’re in treatment, stay there. CHANGE YOUR PHONE NUMBER OR LOSE YOUR PHONE. HIS TEXTS SHOULDN’T BE COMING THROUGH IF YOU REALLY BLOCKED HIM. Cut this motherfucker off and get better. It’s time to change – and save – the rest of your life.
Zari xo
Wounded and Ill
April 2, 2016 at 9:32 amZari,
I WAS very tempted to call you an alien from a whole different planet–one unheard of
(BECAUSE EVERYTHING YOU STATE IS SO SPOT ON).
However, I thought about it: Of course you know best, because YOU’VE BEEN THROUGH IT.
EXPERIENCE IS THE BEST EVER KNOWLEDGE.
Now, it does hurt to know that I never meant shit to him.
But this is REALITY AND I MUST FACE IT.
Truth is I knew this long ago about him (and all the other sociopaths–parents, relatives, “friends” in my life), but I chose to ignore it all. THAT was what did me in this time.
I take full responsibility.
Had I faced the truth, I would have never gone back to him, regardless of the reason.
Zari, this one is one Hell of a monster.
Yeah, many other women say the same thing about their N’s.
But JESUS! This is one EVIL s.o.b.!
As we speak, he is texting apologies and rationalizing.
He even called just now, to “cjeck” on me.
I am no longer flattered–the OLD, many discards ago, would have been.
But once I faced the truth (I had NO choice, aas this time he nearly raped me and then sexually traumatized me–for all intents and purposes, he murdered me out of his life. YES, he knew what he was doing).
Aside from all of that , I want to know something:
Do you know anything about this:
If someone is still hanging on to you, in his mind, and refuses to let go–eventhough the two of you have NO contact at all–can that somehow manifest into YOU not being able to find another man or somehow keep other men away from you?
Again, you have my deepest gratitude, just for being a decent human being and answering my dire call for help.
You deserve a great life, Zari.
Zari Ballard
April 4, 2016 at 5:36 pmHi Wounded and Ill,
To answer your question (bolded in your post), sure it can manifest in that way but only if you allow it. First of all, why is this monster of a man still able to text you or contact you in any way? THIS is the very reason blocking him from all avenues of communication – texting, calling, emailing, social media, via mutual friends – is the biggest and most important step of all. As long as he can still contact you – even with ridiculous benign 3-word texts like “U okay?” or “Just checking on you” – he is still the winner. To a narcissist, it’s even MORE fun to control you via a text message than it is to control you in person! Doing it via text or some similar form, he can still go about his business while you wait for the next one to come in. Sure, we can say we don’t care anymore about his hoovering but the truth is that as long as we know a text or call may pop up at any moment, we’ll wait for it and never move along. And they will play this too….texting all the time during a break-up and then suddenly not texting at all. We feel good while he’s hoovering US but then when he stops, the rush of our control goes down the tubes and we may even go back in for another round. HE KNOWS HOW WE WORK.
Block him at all costs. If he can come to your door, don’t answer it. He’ll go away. Ultimately, narcs aren’t that motivated to keep chasing us and they will eventually stop if we do all we can do to block. IF YOU DON’T BLOCK HIM (REMOVE HIS ABILITY TO CONTACT YOU) THEN YOU ARE HANGING ONTO HIM ACTUALLY MORE THAN HE IS TO YOU…AND HE KNOWS IT. He doesn’t even care if you respond as long as he knows it will go through and you will look at it. Keeping connected in this way WILL keep you from moving on and eventually finding a decent person a while down the road.
Zari xo
Greg
March 30, 2016 at 9:16 amI keep getting calls at work where I pick up the phone and it sounds like the caller hung up. Could it be her? Is that also a hoovering technique?
Zari Ballard
April 2, 2016 at 12:39 amHi Greg,
While I can’t guarantee that it’s her making the calls, this is definitely one of their narcissistic tricks/hoovering techniques to get your attention. It’s unfortunate for you if this indeed is whats happening…
Zari:)
Greg
April 2, 2016 at 3:18 pmThanks for replying. Long story short, it’s not her making the calls. I consider that a blessing. I am ready to accept that she’s out of my life. I realize now that she didn’t really like me, much less love or respect me. My feeling now is that she is an amoral pig who allowed life to destroy her. It might not be her fault she’s a narc, but it’s not my fault either. I will no longer allow her to take it out on me!
Zari Ballard
April 4, 2016 at 4:08 pmGreg wrote…It might not be her fault she’s a narc, but it’s not my fault either. I will no longer allow her to take it out on me! Amen to that!
Stay strong, brother…
Zari xo