Well, I read your other post before this one so now I understand it a little more clearly. So, she is just as bad as he is. Deb, the deal is that by allowing him to still be able to sleep with you, all he does is get to win the game – and he doesn’t deserve to do that. The pain is NOT worth the sex or vice versa. Of course we miss them but it’s all an illusion because they SUCK as people. There’s a reason you left so don’t doubt your decision. As for his side chicks, they tolerate his toxic behavior just like you do. It’s no different. Nobody in his life is any more important than the next…that’s the trick to the whole thing. We think we are far more important to the narc than we are. I hope that you are able to pull free somehow. We only get one life and he’ll be happy to waste yours away for as long as you allow it…..

Zari xo

Hi Fran,

I actually had an awesome childhood…almost idyllic. Raised by great parents in a beautiful neighborhood by the ocean. I don’t have a single complaint about it. I didn’t suffer at all then and I sure don’t suffer now. You, however, sound kinda angry and you must have found your way to my site for a reason. Come on…fess up, girl. We’re all family here!

Zari:)

Another important distinguishing feature is empathy (or lack thereof in the narcissist’s case). I feel like my boyfriend really would prioritize my needs no matter what. In fact, he sometimes has–even when it’s not so convenient for him. One time, when I was stressed out about something, he immediately got dressed and came over to comfort me (even though it was late at night and it would have been more comfortable for him to stay put at his place, then turn in for the night). He did that just so he could personally give me a hug. I somehow can’t imagine a narcissist doing that.

So to everyone here, please get (and stay!) narcissist free, to open yourself up to the far better relationships that are available out there. Let’s not waste even one more minute giving love to these cretins who neither appreciate nor deserve it.

I found your web site as I searched for an answer to my ex N’s behavior of late.

Back Story: Married 1st time for one year, blamed myself for the demise of the marriage; the ex and I never really stopped talking to each other, he would call and we would fight about issues in the marriage. This went on for 7 years. Yes, I know! He came back to town, contacted me, I told him I no longer wanted to fight, have a nice life, good bye.

In seven months (the number seven seems to have particular significance for us but I do not know why). We married again and divorced after seven years.

It has now been two years and I am now getting past the frozen state that has been my being since the fight to divorce this man. I am beginning to cry and that is a good thing. I realize now just how hard I tried, to no avail, to save a marriage that was not a marriage.

I have been reading your site for the whole afternoon. When one is ready the teacher will come. I am sure you know that proverb. Your site has been a teaching experience at such a deep level. Yes, I understood about N and BPD, read all the books, went to therapy etc. but it was not until today that, with your site, I realize that I hold such anger! Still.

And that I am becoming unfrozen.

Please know that anger was the thing that finally catapulted me out of that hell realm. I know I have a temper, and I made a decision way long ago (I will be sixty in a month) to control it. He told me for the last time that “I didn’t do anything” after he was fired from 7 jobs in 7 years, porn chat rooms, porn books sitting in places where he knew I would find them, two affairs that I know of, and no sex for 5 years (well at least it wasn’t seven!).

I was the manager of a very lucrative business, my ex is a doctor, and I invested 1/2 his income well. I also set aside a portion of funds, that I did not tell him about, with the idea that if the marriage was a success it would just be added to our retirement account. If not, it would help me get an attorney and be able to live while the divorce ground down.

That extra padding saved me and I am not sorry one wit. You know, one can fuck with me, but never fuck with my money, as my mother would have said, but nicer.

It has been very emotional to sit and read the stories here. I could intellectualize the ex’s behavior but I just was not ready to FEEL it. I am now beginning to feel just how fucked up our relationship was and what I gave up to hang on to it. I believe, at least so far, that that relationship was the most profound so far in my life. It changed me. Or, should I say, I changed me. Never, ever again. All the red flags were there, but all I saw were red flags made of hearts. What I just do not understand, and maybe never will, is what is the end to destroying those that deeply care. It seems so very ruthless with deep down hatred, and how do they learn these tricks? They have to make a decision to act this way. It is so calculated that they must practice to become a Master, so there is Intent involved. It is not just that they have a missing link or something.

Obviously his personality did not work in the work place since he continued to be fired! But he still thinks it is them…not him.

I know he is trying to hoover me back in because I saw from my bank statement that he just cashed a check from me dated almost a year ago. I have tried to discuss this with some friends and they think he just lost the check, found it, then cashed it. I know better. Once I finally saw through his game, that check is a Hoover move….I did not press the point with my friends…they just do not get it. Get it!!!

Thank you,

SarahK

Hi GJ,

I am so sorry that you continue to suffer at the hands of your narcissistic mother. Female narcissists are so unbelievably evil – they actually have their male counterparts beat hands down. Unfortunately, when the female narcissist is your mother and she sets her sights on the grand children, there’s no way to escape it. It doesn’t surprise me at all that she has done what she’s done. All it is is an extension of her unwarranted bad treatment of you throughout your childhood. Breaks my heart for you, it really does.

Look, you and I both know that this woman will never change – that we know for sure. But we also know that a narcissist always shows her colors at some point in some way. You don’t say exactly how old your girls are but there is going to come a point when all the money in the world isn’t going to hide the fact that granny has a sinister agenda. It may take a very long time but the fact is that you can’t neither wait for it or move it along. You have to find a peace within yourself and move forward. DETACHMENT & INDIFFERENCE will save you and probably more from yourself than from your mom or daughters. Sometimes when we step back from a situation that makes us feel desperate, (in this case you feeling rejected by the girls while knowing the truth of grandma’s intentions), things have a way of working themselves out. Your mom wants you to feel jealous and left out and inferior. Don’t give her what she wants anymore. Go about your life one day at a time allowing none of them (the girls or your mom) to rile you up. Detach from it and show indifference. Let them be. If grandma didn’t have money, she’d have nothing. Let her talk her shit all she wants. If you concentrate on saying nothing, you have nothing for her to talk shit about. Eventually, the tables shift and it will appear that she is simply talking trash about nothing. Only when you step back and detach, not allowing any of them to rile you up, will your mothers true colors start to come through. She knows how to work the family system and you need to turn it around by basically doing nothing. One day, GJ, she will be gone anyway – hopefully more sooner than later – and the smoke will have to clear then. If I were you, I would focus on stepping completely away from the situation, keeping any interaction with her to a complete minimum, avoiding any conversation about her when you speak with your daughters except the bare minimum….you know what I mean. When you suffer, she wins….so make it appear that you’ve stopped suffering. Don’t say “You’ll see what I mean someday…how evil she is”…say nothing. You owe them no explanation for your detachment.

I know it won’t be easy to hide the hurt at first but the more you practice watching the whole ugly scene as if it’s happening to someone else…detaching…the freer you will feel. It’s not going to happen overnight but you have to do it…it is up to you to save the second half of her life…to NOT allow her to ruin those years for you as she desires to do. Take the power back all by yourself. I wish you nothing but the best and please do let me know how you are doing, sister.

Zari xo

Hi Amy!!

Okay, I signed up at Instagram and trying to read up on it and how best to network through it. I will let you know soon….

Zari xo

Amy-Your ex-N must be pretty clever to send you those emails. I think it’s hilarious actually. Can’t see the forest for the trees!

My ex-N (who I work with – which SUCKS) won’t talk to me at work, but I’m still getting random texts from time to time in which he tells me he doesn’t like me not talking to him and needs me in his life — even only as friends. He even went so far as to hand deliver an email pleading his case and apologizing. I guess he figured if he sent me the email, I would just delete it and not answer. I still didn’t answer his email and don’t plan to ever talk to him again. I haven’t talked to him in over a month but on Friday I had to install a program on his computer. I did it because it’s part of my job, but did not even say a word, just did what I needed to and left. That night he texted me a hazelnut emoji. WTF? A week before that he texted me the poop emoji, so I’m not sure if he thought he selected poop again (cause the nut looked like poop if you couldn’t see clearly) or he was actually calling me a nut! Which he had done MANY times during our relationship. At any rate, bottom line was he was either calling me a shit or a nut!! I just laugh and think..dude..WHEN are you going to just STOP???? Hoover is his middle name! Jeesh.

Keep up the good work! 🙂

Good morning Zari.
Happy Friday. I just wanted you to know that I came into work today to have several emails from an anonymous email, sneding me links to how i need to read and save myself because i am a narcisst. that i need to open up my eyes before its too late.
How quite ironic, dont you think?
I automatically blocked the address, and havenot think twice about it, however I had to send a message to you.
I have been speaking the truth about him. not dwelling on the past but healing and moving on. quoting things etc.

Thats my random notation of the day.
These people never stop.
Hope you are well

xoxo Amy:)

Zari, Honestly. thanks again for checking in on me:)
yes some days can be tough but it really boils down to I WOULD NEVER GO BACK>
People need to be more informed on these monsters and i never not speak the truth.
I have no karma telling how someone is if its true.
I think me not being silent causes his action more, and also helps me to continue on the path that i am .. UP AND FORWARD.. xoxoxoxoxoxo.

Hey Lady. 🙂 thanks for checking in.
Im doing great. I got my own house, my own car.
Still on IG and talking with others all the time, and sharing your info.
i met a few on IG that i refered and now is getting your book and one is setting up a consult with you:)
I told her to tell you hello.
he is still at the hoovering. hes blocked. no contact. nothing.
had a jiffy with him showing up at my work. but im free. its been months and im thinking more NORMAL if normal is anything. and im acutally HAPPY:)
its amazing.
im so thankful for you everyday and all the help you have helped me with.
After seeing through the fog,, even with him saying hes sicl and he hasa a tumor, etc. I know that i deserve so much more in life then living what i was.

thank you again.
AND SERIOUSLY INSTAGRAM LADY:)
xoxoxoxoxox.

Amy

Hi Miss Amy,

Just checking in to see if you’re okay….The last time you wrote, you were telling me how much he loves you and wants to marry you but for some reason you didn’t believe him!!! HA-HA! And as for running into the details, that’s gonna happen and as long as you’re not looking, it’s all good. Like you said, there’s gotta be a reason for it so continue to see it as one big awful lesson to be learned. You’re doing so great, though, I have full faith in your ability to recover and carry on a wonderful life, sister:)

Love,
Zari xo

Having a tough week. but im still going along.
i met a bunch of people on IG and have been spreading the word.
the one is doing your wook book today, and may do a consultation.
When you can, keep me posted to adding an IG>
ugh.im ignoring him. but what a hard week. two new woman i found out about not looking even.. by going to a store and a going to a place to talk about having a benefit… all signs of my moving forward.. its like the karma is just helping me see but bringing them out. if that makes sense..
staying strong. but you know he wants to marry me. and he loves me so much.
have a good day.
xoxox Amy

Hi SweetOne,

Well, how bad do you want/need that treadmill? If it was me, I might be tempted to call the cops to go with me to get it or to at least go there and ask for him to return it to you somehow. The cops will do that if you make out a report. As for pressing charges, you have to be willing to take that all the way to court because he WILL fight it. Nothing is ever easy with a narcissist – even if you have cold hard evidence. HOWEVER, it’s possible that showing those photos to a cop would be a great excuse for why the cop should go with you to get that treadmill – even if you don’t press charges, know what I mean? You can say, “Look, this is what this guy did to me a month ago. I’ve got a brand new treadmill over there and I really want it back considering I’ve lost everything else. But I do NOT want to go alone and I’d prefer not to even go at all. Can you help?” That just may work. Let me know what happens.

Zari xo

ok…question. My ex kicked me out of the house a month ago but he still has some of my valuable items in the home that he will not release to me. One is a treadmill still in the box that is very heavy. His last text to me was to forget he exists, lose his number and stay out of his life. (He moved another girl in with him while my things were still at the house) What do I do? He has already taken so much from me I cant just let these items go. Plus he physical abuse me about a month ago in front of my 4 year old son. I have pics and am considering pressing charges. Does anyone know what type of retaliation that I might face with that??

Thank you for your support, guidance, insight and strength! I’ve read all four of your books – including the latest one–When Evil is a Pretty Face.

Oh yeah, my ex was Evil with a pretty face. A slightly different twist to the the story is that I am a gay woman in my mid 50’s, and she was a divorced woman in her 50’s as well.

We met online, and she epitomized everything I thought I had finally been looking for. Someone who was secure in their own skin, had a good career, was feminine, had older kids, liked to do the same activities that I did, etc. , great sex….It seemed like a perfect match – and it was easy, simple and good. At first. We dreamed of a great future together, marriage, merging our lives. It was fun. Our theme song was “Happy”. I fell for it!!!!!!

Then came the first devalue and discard after about two months in. She dumped me for a woman (ex 2) that she had cheated on with her previous ex (ex 1) (back story, when my ex was with ex1, they broke up because of her fling with ex2, ex 1 then had an affair with ex 2 before she got back with my ex…follow that crazy shit, right?).

Then she came back, I gave her a pass–and then we went through the whole thing again with her ex (ex1). OMG, I never even heard the words narcissist or triangulation before this relationship. But I was triangulated to the max (Her: oh dear, ex1 is still telling me I am her eternal love, I’m her moonlight still, she’s still writing me letters, but I don’t want to hurt her by telling her to stop even though she knows I am happy with you…)

After she promised that she would cut contact with ex1 for everyone’s good so that we could really move forward with our relationship- I felt her emotionally unpIug from me and would not talk about it, my detective work uncovered her contact with ex1—and after asking her if she was in contact with ex 1, she said yes but, “she broke a promise that she never should have made” about not contacting ex 1. I took my house key and said enough was enough and left her at the restaurant—and she showed up at my house – for what I thought was a heartfelt apology…BUT NO—it was for her curling iron!!!!!! I should have really realized then that her mask was literally her make-up!!! hahaha!!!

I stuck with her because she had so many big things on her plate – her dad in a nursing home, house drama, kid crap, car stuff, money issues ( I lent her money but I did get it back–phew!), alcohol issues…….in fact, right before her dad passed away, he told her to take good care of me because I was her guardian angel.

HAH!

Anyway, I slowly figured out that she did not have that empathy button (why did I have to explain how I felt, and what it was like to be in my shoes after she lied and deceived me again and again? Why did I have to care about the ex’s cat dying? ex is hurting terribly about our breakup and I must help her through it by staying in touch with her), and the continual lying right to my face (Oh yeah, I became a master detective…..)….oh and she was a master blame shifter…..(“you need to take responsibility for getting involved with someone who had just gotten out of a relationship”)……oh—-and the best one—-the ex (who lived 400 miles away) needs to have a face to face with me so that she can move on, so I am going to spend 4 days and 3 nights there to help her through this and we are JUST friends–because that is the cheapest airfare I can get, but I am madly in love with you and there will be no contact with her after I return—NO EXCEPTION (hahahahah) two months later she was FB messaging her and……….

the final devalue—-“You are visually unstimulating to me because you wear sweatpants all the time”…hell, it is winter in new england, and my house is cold and I work from home. After that final devalue, I told her to get the F out of my house and F out of my life. I felt awful (but not regretful) for saying that to her and apologized because she made it clear that that is how her mother used to talk to her. She did not accept my apology. Because of course, she was back with the ex.

I’m two weeks into NC (Her: “I don’t dispose of my friends like you and I am always here for you. Call anytime if you need something”. HAHAHAHAHAHA no f’ing way! I will not be triangulated EVER again)

So, here are a few things I’ve learned, and albeit I am still a little shaky and at times lonely (we practically lived together for a year). I am trying to find a peace within myself, and forgive myself for not trusting my gut.

I met a great therapist who confirmed my suspicions of her narcissism (she was a dependent narcissist) and BPD, and talked to me about examining why I need to be needed….but she recommended going to Sound Healing to rid myself of this negative energy that I let invade me.

If you find a sound healer/therapist near you try it! Energy healing with reiki and Tibetan Bowl sounds. Incredible positive energy.

Also, I’ve been to a non-denominational church that does meditation prayers. Very peaceful!

I go to spin class. And have a personal trainer. And I walk. And I’m trying just to take time to just be….

So in the end, what I take from this is that I am glad I was there for her dad when he passed. And, I will be a stronger gal with much stronger boundaries from here on out.

Again Zari, thanks for your books and I have been working on your workbooks. Very helpful!!!

xoxoxo

WHY WHY WHY won’t they just go AWAY??? UGH. After another text from my N which went unanswered, he started emailing me yesterday with our work email system. (He can see when I am there or not because of our IM window). He was writing to apologize to me for his behavior and asked that we talk things out. He was upset that I seemed to not be interested in talking to him now which was an added complication FOR HIM. He said he thinks of me every minute of every day and really wants to work on things for US. I responded by sending him our last text exchange which I had typed up (just in case I needed evidence to show him) in which he told me he was done. I reminded him that he told me ‘no thanks , he had had enough” and I wasn’t interested in talking to him any further; that there was nothing to work on because there was no “us”.

His reply was :”Ok, I see your still upset with me. I tried to reach out and apologize, that is what an apology is—admitting I was wrong. You took the opportunity to throw my words back in my face but still see no fault in yourself. So I messed up and told you what you have told me a dozen times, I did not mean it. I was hurt. If your telling me there is nothing to work out—ok. do not judge me on the actions I choose. I cannot read minds what you want. Please do not try to hurt me, I am already hurt enough as you are. You know I care about you and the way I feel. I know you do. I am asking you for the last time, Do you want to talk with me about us?”

I had a hard time composing myself to not let him have it with both barrels, but I said that wasn’t upset at all, that I was totally clear headed about what I wanted. His apology coming two weeks AFTER he stopped talking to me seemed to take an awfully long time. That I wasn’t quite sure how I hurt HIM. If he didn’t like my suggestion of stopping contact until he was separated then he should have said let me think about it or that he didn’t like it much, but as a way to finally be with me, he was willing to do that. Instead, he chose to just stop talking to me while he pouted. He says, “–this is not true, all I was doing was thinking of it. I really do not understand you at times and you will not take the time to explain. If you want it over, there is not much I can do. But we will talk when I get back, I have some things to say face to face calmly.”

He admitted that he gave me the silent treatment as a way HE CONTROLS himself so he doesn’t say things he might regret –that that is just how he handles things and didn’t I know that by now? It is #1 off of Zari’s list of Narcissistic Traits! ” – 1. The narcissist (N) demands that you tolerate and cater to his every need and always be available when it works for him. He, of course, does not have to be available for you ever. If you dare to question his unavailability or show an emotional reaction towards a manipulative behavior, you will likely receive a “punishment” such as the Silent Treatment (a narcissistic favorite) or the proverbial cold shoulder (if you live together) as a reminder of who has control. Keeping victims on the edge of their seats 24/7 is a very common narcissistic tactic for whittling away at a person’s self-confidence and inner security.”

I told him I wasn’t going to just accept his apology and tell him it was Ok. That I had done that for 2 1/2 years and I was done putting up with it. We had a few more emails back and forth but basically it ended up with me telling him I was tired of him treating me like shit over and over again and that I wasn’t interested in talking to him anymore EVER. He demanded to know if I truly felt like he treated me badly and in what way? That he knows our only problem is that he isn’t separated yet and he was working on that. Exasperating much?? It’s like I could talk till I was blue in the face and he would NEVER GET IT. (That’s why NC is so important for our own sanity I suppose, LOL)

I left for the day and then ended up texting him a few hours later that he needs to just leave me alone or I will tell his wife he’s still trying to get with me. He said he figured I would threaten him and he hoped I wouldn’t for the sake of his kids. He is still trying to maintain his status of innocence in having the affair when in fact he was caught more times than I can count. He stopped texting then and I’m HOPING he is done for a while. I expect him to try to talk to me when he gets back from his business trip as he just won’t resign himself to the fact that I am REALLY over him. His ego just can’t accept that I wouldn’t want anything to do with him because he is SUCH a great catch.

Ebby. Your Narc is pretty good but mine was a master! I laughed when I read your dream story. Mine came up with dreams, sang love songs over the phone, dangled vacations and expensive jewelry. It worked for a long time. We probably broke up 10 times in a 3 year period. Then he was actually a prince for a few years. When he started Bs again I ran for the hills. I was older and wouldn’t tolerate it and his old Hoover tricks didn’t work. They will say or do anything to control good supply. Btw your Narc’s wife is probably a nice person. I found out my Narc was with someone when we met for 5 years. Juggled us both for awhile and then left her for me. Told me she was cold, not good in bed, bla bla. Now Knowing he is a Narc I realize he just got bored. I feel sorry for her now but bought all his bs back then. Hindsight is 20/20. Yea I would be tempted to tell the wife but you know he will be vindictive and his beaten down wife will stay anyway. I have a friend who dropped the dime on her married asshole. The wife stayed anyway and he went bonkers on her. It got real ugly. Not sure you need the additional drama but I do understand the temptation. :).

Hey Beth..thanks for the words of support. Well, as par of the course for my N, he has NOT discarded me much to my dismay. Yesterday he texted me a dream that he had in which he caught me when I jumped out of a tree and we talked face to face for a while ‘working things out’. That that was what we both wanted in the dream (and he hardly ever dreams). I ignored it. Three hours later I received another text in which he tells me that a tree in a dream can symbolize growth, new beginning, branching and reaching out. That it was a healthy tree and I was all smiles when he caught me. Again, I ignored it.

I read it with as much emotion as I would the back of a cereal box! I was almost laughing at his total and complete LUNACY in now trying to convince me that because he had a dream about me in a tree that I would somehow be receptive to us beginning anew? PAH-LEASE! We’ve ‘begun anew” so many times only to have it repeatedly backfire on ME! It just kills me that HE was the one who walked away this time but now he is circling around me again thinking that I’ll take him back. (But that’s what they do..discard and boomerang back, right??) His whole pretense would be that “I” make changes for our new beginning..not him because he does/did nothing wrong. Never mind he is still living with his wife..that’s only a minor complication in his eyes, but it also was used as a MAJOR excuse why he couldn’t leave for over 2.5 years. I’m very tempted next time he texts me (because he WILL) to just do screen shots and forward them right to his wife as I have her cell number. Its not that I wish to hurt her anymore than I have, but if she thinks they are working on things or whatever bullsh*t he’s feeding her I think she has a right to know what’s really going on. I know without a doubt, he’ll go ballistic if I do it, but I honestly don’t care…

He’s away in California now for at least 3 weeks on business which is a relief..but unfortunately, we do work together and he still has access to me via IM or email or even to call me. That sucks.

Ebby The old “do you hate me?” Ahhh my ex N favorite. Even told me if I did he didn’t think he could go on! It’s nausiating. Feel sorry for his wife who’s self esteem is in the shitter after living with this con artist. Remember this. They never have your best interest at heart. Close the book and take back your life. Stay the course. It’s worth it!