I know…sad but true….xo

I totally (and sadly) agree with you Zari. A person has to be capable of empathy, insight, and a commitment to equality and connection. None of these are present in the N, and we who have really suffered under its grasp, are well aware of how demeaning it is to even try. It will destroy a person inside and out.

Hey girl….just responded to your second post!

No, narcissists can NOT be changed – not with love, punishment, therapy, or any magic pill. It just doesn’t happen. If you’re able to fix someone, then they weren’t a narc. Narcs do not evaluate themselves, tolerate therapy for any length of time, put up with “being in the doghouse”, realize the error of their ways, or learn to respect you or anyone else. They know right from wrong, they just don’t give a shit. They will be nice if they feel like it and when they don’t, they will not or they leave to go somewhere else until they’re ready to come back. Narcissists are never submissive and never will be. While they can certainly be charming when they want to be (or want something), narcissists will do what they want when they want to do it and they don’t want to be told otherwise. They will lies even when the truth is a better story and all the great sex in the world or love you can give them will stop them from being who they are. Narcissists are MISSING something…that extra DNA strand (or whatever) that makes them feel attachment or real love. This is how they get through life.

So you can beat someone or train someone into submission in all the ways you describe and if it works, then they WERE NOT a narcissist, I guarantee it. Likely they were just a boyfriend or girlfriend temporarily behaving badly because not even every cheater is a narc. No, narcs have that little bit of extra evil that makes them unfortunately un-fixable. This is why the only way to save your sanity is to go no contact as best you can and get out.

Zari:)

I’m giving a Narcissist the silent treatment right now, and I’m going to do it for years this time. (I did it for months last time, and he had the nerve to be surprised. {His face => D8} ) My father was a narcissist, too. I learned very quickly what works _on_ them. I am only learning now what they think works _for_ them! They don’t care, because nobody has ever forced them to care. That can be undone. You just have to stop begging.

Yes, it’s possible to change a narc, however it is a pain in the butt, because it takes A LOT of work, and consistency.

If I were you, here’s what I would do.

1. Since he has already put himself in the doghouse, he needs a dog bowl! Feed him using the dog-bowl and tell him he put himself there, and he can come out of it any time. He’ll probably choose to stay in the “dog house” a little longer out of pride. But, you are turning the guilt and responsibility for his predicament back on him, AND you’re giving him a choice. Making fun of his ridiculously immature behavior drives home the point that he can solve his conceptual problems better than having fits and making everyone else his servant.

2. Make sure EVERY MISBEHAVIOR HAS A REPERCUSSION. Narcissists have the maturity of a five-year-old. Let him know with your actions you don’t need him, and you don’t have to tolerate his behavior. Next time he throws a hissy-fit, present him with some Midol. When he throws a bigger fit over that, add some feminine laxative tablets (the PINK ones) to help him “get it all out” of his system. (He’ll actually stop and think next time, but he’ll never let _you_ know he got the point!)

3. Expect the narcissist to try to “get even” with you for standing up for yourself… at first. They are ALWAYS surprised when somebody puts his or her foot down with them, and they react in anger at the shock. -> They will also suddenly respect you more, for a while. Repeated discipline is necessary for this type of “unteachable” monster, so keep your new rules consistent and enforce them mercilessly – even when he whines in pain and you want to reduce the punishment, or its severity.

Narcissists are demon-possessed and they don’t know it. With demons (or other evil creatures) if you give them an inch, they’ll take two miles. Just keep asking him if he likes the way he treated you, now that he’s getting it back. Then, leave the room and ignore his complaints. This is nothing more than a little child whining about how “boring” it is to stand in the corner for five minutes, and it has only been one minute in. He’ll eventually stop whining.

4. Next time he threatens to leave, pack a box with his clothes, pack a lunch, and tell him where the door is. (He’ll get angry the first time you do this, but fury is a narc’s last-defense mechanism. They’re hoping to scare you into obedience. It is at this point that I would just laugh.) If the moron leaves, or threatens divorce, change the locks. (Make sure this is legal where you live first.) Next time he is gone for longer than three days, give him the surprise. Tell him his immaturity has to stop. (Yes, he’ll try to return that “punishment” – the next time you go to work, he’ll change the locks on you, out of spite, and because he’s five years old. Always have a back-up plan to get into the house.

5. Remember, you don’t need him. He is an accessory that has caused you pain and mental torment. He can be replaced. Don’t fall for the candy-and-flowers treatment. He won’t mean it for the first few years. Tell him “No thank you,” ask him to take them back, or ask him why he’s wasting money. If he buys you chocolate, say something like, “I see you bought yourself some chocolate. Nice,”. Don’t even eat one piece of what he buys you. He’ll think his appeasement tactic is working. Treat his “gifts” like dirt. You don’t want appeasement. You want change. Punishment makes the child in a narc _want_ to change, so it does some of the work of “making” him change for you. The severity and consistency of the punishment accelerates this process in the N.

6. Once the lessons finally sink in, he will want to change. He will see that he was wrong, and he will begin to finally feel shame. How long that shame and motivation to improve himself lasts depends on you. Don’t start rewarding him for good behavior AT ALL when he just begins to half-think about changing his ways. Don’t get “soft” on him, because then he’ll think that merely talking about change is a new appeasement tactic. Wait util he really, REALLY wants to change. Instead, insist on getting him couple’s counseling. (He will refuse – for a very long time. But, if you keep disciplining him consistently, he will have to give in.) Counseling with you in the room keeps him from whining and lying to the counselor to get sympathy instead of actually making progress. (My father was a whiner.)

7. The purpose of counseling is twofold. First you are teaching your well-disciplined N a new pattern of _thinking_ and behavior. Second, the N will finally begin to evaluate himself for the first time. Narcissists have an extrinsic value system rather than the natural intrinsic value system. I.e., they only “see” something as valuable for what it does/can be used for instead of what something is in and of itself. It’s a defense mechanism that has to be unlearned. The shallow thinking “works” for them for as long as nothing bad happens. Punishment and pain teach the N that his or her poorly-chosen survival tactic doesn’t actually work.

8. If you want to start rewarding the (now copious) good behavior, wait until about six months into counseling. You may finally start accepting his apologies, instead of rebutting with, “I don’t believe you”. But, keep it conditional. There is a proverb that states: “The truth is like a kiss on the lips, but a lie is like a slap in the face”. Which one does he want, a kiss or a slap?

Hi Flippy,

Look, NOBODY deserves to be beaten – not man nor woman – and that alone creates the most dangerous part of the situation. If you keep allowing her back, one day YOU are going to find yourself in jail for being wrongly accused of hitting HER simply because it is standard to assume the guy is beating the girl. She could even say that you did it after you put your arms out to fend her off, pushing her by mistake. Anything could happen. And, honestly, I’m not buying the fact that she views her father’s physical abuse as a term of endearment. I actually believe she’s making that up as a way to justify to YOU and to herself her hitting YOU. I know she has other narcissistic issues (the silent treatments, rages, etc.) that concern you but right now all I care about is that “beating” problem and, to me, that ALONE is so unforgivable enough that you never have to speak to her again. I may be wrong but I sense that you both are pretty young (20’s?) so there is plenty of life ahead for you. I personally don’t feel it’s your responsibility to “fix” her or to even take her back on the promise that she would get help because then you’d have to hold her to it. Certainly counseling of the most stringent kind would do her good and hopefully she will take it. I can’t say for sure if she’s a full-on narc (I’d have to know more) but she definitely has dangerous issues that even surpass the typical narcissistic kind. I know you love her, brother, but it is just not meant to be.

Block her and do not email. It will only string you both along and this relationship, for both of you, must come to an end. You sound like a very kind compassionate guy and you deserve more in this short life.

Zari xo

The most frustrating thing about this is that I keep on falling for her and letting her back in to just beat me once again. This is a great article that sums up why I should not go back to this but regardless of how much I read, I am obsessed with her.
I am now in a breakup phase after I allowed her to move in to my flat where in 3 days I was hit again. As I ejected her I told her that she has to go and get some serious help to control her anger/violence (will this ever happen?), until I can consider us. It was a risk as I never wanted to lose her but the aggression must be addressed.

After the most recent episode she pleaded to be back and for me to not let go and that she would change. So powerless that she even offered an ultimatum of ‘if you don’t take me back right now then I won’t come back’, to which I said no.
I am now completely blocked from contacting her after she found somewhere else to live and I am in a position where I cannot stop thinking about her. I love her (or what I think is love) from the bottom of my heart and will do anything to get her back. I even emailed her yesterday to say I’m moving on but, I am not even there in my own head.

She has a very mixed background and mentality where her father used to hit her and she believes it was because he cared.
Has anyone been in similar and thoughts on reconciling, or at least trying? I keep using her background to justify her behaviour…

I do have a specific question – by contacting, am I feeding the N nature and allowing her to still feel power and even though I want her back (and I do) will she ever address the problem, as in will love conquer all?

Hi OVERDUE,

You have to figure out a way and you have nothing to be ashamed about. You have to shift your thinking from worrying about him, what he’s thinking, what he’s doing, and what his next cruel behavior will be and start making a plan for your life. There has to be a way. You are not doomed to forever be in this relationship, sister. Your children will understand and will probably be very glad to be away from the chaos. No more crying and no more wasting time.

Stay strong and write here anytime! I am here to support you…

Zari xo

Hi Dawn,

Here I am again apologizing for being so late in responding. Do NOT beat yourself up, sister, because time will heal the wounds and children are resilient. They can see that you are trying to make a life for the three of you. Bravo for you about finding the flat but while I appreciate you giving each girl a room, my thinking is that they can SHARE a room. You deserve to have your own space after not having any space at all for all those years. Stop punishing yourself. You deserve your own room. As it stands, it will probably be quite a while before you can afford a bigger place with a third bedroom SO YOU MIGHT AS WELL DO IT NOW. If you had a boy and girl, that would be different but two sisters can share a room!! LOL

You are an awesome mom and you have done all the right things considering your situation. It’s OKAY. Don’t worry about “undoing” the damage…just be the best mom that you can be right now and going forth and the damage will undo on it’s own. Stop beating yourself up – it’s nonproductive – and the truth is that your ex likely blamed you for everything throughout your life together anyway. Why continue the legacy into your recovery???

Bless you and your girls, my sister! Feel free to write anytime. I am here to support you….

Zari xo

My goodness..what a terrible situation – but you will survive it. Since it’s only April, I can’t tell if you mean that you met just four months ago, got in the accident, and then moved in with him and his roommate? If that’s the case, brush it off and forget you ever met him. Seriously, erase it from your memory and cut off all communication now and for in the future. Block him everywhere. He is obviously not anyone you need in your life as a boyfriend, friend, or anything else. And it sounds like he found a girl that he absolutely deserves. The only thing that I regret for you is that you didn’t punch her in the face OR dunk her head in the bucket of paint on the way out. That’s okay, because if she’s with him, her punishment for being such a mean bitch IS COMING!

Stay strong and be happy your free!

Zari xo

Hi Jennifer,

I apologize for the delay in getting back to you. After 20 years, it is time for you to get a chance at life. This is never going to change, sister. A narcissist feels falsely entitled to do whatever he wants, whenever he wants, with whomever he wants at anyone’s expense…he LIVES by this rule…and he will never waiver. You can stay but this is as good as it’s going to get. Narcissism can not be changed, not with love, therapy, or any magic pill. We only have one chance at this very short life and it would be a shame, now that your child is grown, for you not to get the best shot possible at a bit of freedom and happiness.

Zari xo

To be honest, I would be flabbergasted if she texts me, she would need to unblock me for a start, I daresay I don’t occupy her thoughts one little bit despite going through so much personally and professionally.
As for me, being honest it does occupy my mind a lot as it cuts deep. Many people at work know there’s a rift and whenever she’s mentioned I keep talking her down in a humorous way as a coping mechanism and refer to her as the ‘J word’. It easy for people to tell me to move on, if it was only that simple, but to me its not just a question of moving on but also to thrive.
People defend her actions as her new line of work is very hands on and all consuming, I don’t doubt this but I know and lived through the whole sorry situation.

But yes, I am happily married, I didn’t mention my wife as it didn’t involve her – my relationship with my narc really was completely platonic. My wife knows of ‘Jess’ although the morning after the Xmas drink with the texts/being blocked etc, I couldn’t hide my low mood and sadness which she picked up on and I did tell her of what happened. Although since then I have kept my thoughts to myself and haven’t mentioned the whole episode since.

Hi Jay,

YOU did nothing wrong. What you DID do was call this person out on her bad behavior and you were right and she knew it. Oh…and they don’t like THAT at all! You weren’t being insensitive at all and you needn’t have apologized but that’s okay, at least you can say that you did it and she is STILL being a complete bitch so let it go. Better friends are to be made. Trust me, you don’t want her back in your life because now that she’s done it once (the silent treatment), she will certainly do it again and life is simply too short for all that nonsense!

Stay strong!

Zari xo

Hi Charlie,

I’m sorry for what happened…it’s really awful. She sounds like one of those narcissistic females – all fun, excitement and friendship on the outside, a shallow could-care-less attitude on the inside. Very typical, actually. We don’t have to be romantically involved with narcissists to get the full affect of the blow-off, that’s for sure. You don’t talk at all about your wife yet you say that you’re happily married. Did she know that you had been suffering over the loss of this friendship? I’m thinking perhaps you are not so happily married and the narcissist picked right up on this, using it for all it was worth, giving you the companionship and fun that perhaps you didn’t feel at home…and then BAM she was gone. Again, this is very typical.

I don’t blame you for losing it with the texts and she deserved to hear it. Don’t worry about her turning herself into a victim…she would have done this anyway. As you know, when they’re done with us, they’re done….that is, until they’re not. Do not be surprised if all of a sudden you get a text from her at some point acting as if nothing happened. Then it will be up to you if you should even give her the time of day outside of a strictly professional level. If and when that happens, I would, if I were you, calmly say no thanks and be on your way. Not worth your time, brother!

Stay strong!

Zari xo

Right on!

Thanx for your kind words Zari and I am not going back period!! Mel xx