Hi Jenny,

Thank you for sharing and reading at my website:) I understand what your saying and this particular explanation (which is shared by many) is exactly why I say that a narcissist’s entire MO in life is to get away with things. To me, a narc’s grandiose self-image is proof positive that he doesn’t have an extremely fragile sense of self-esteem. One can’t have low self-esteem AND a grandiose self-image….it makes no sense. If a narc sat in the dark at night crying about his shortcomings, then I’d have a different perspective but we all know that he doesn’t. The truth is that he knows right from wrong, he just doesn’t give a shit and therefore, since he is a narc and every intention is less than benevolent, his whole life becomes about what he can get away with. Most of the time they get away with a whole lot which explains how some can become very successful. It also explains how they can easily blend into society – at least initially – with charming and “normal” outward appearances.

Understand that when I say they “get away with things”, I’m not saying that they sit down in the morning and make a list of ways in which they can put something over on those that care. It’s worse that that…they just do it naturally because THAT is the core of the narcissistic personality. This is akin to wanting to be in control all the time. It’s all the same the way I see it. A narc will control you in many different ways and the main reason for doing so is so that he can get away with doing whatever he wants to do. It’s all the same, girl, and it goes around in one big circle.

A narc really and truly believes – through his grandiose self-image and extraordinary sense of self-esteem – that he (or she) is falsely entitled to do whatever he wants whenever he wants with whomever he wants at anyone’s expense. Of course if you told him this, he would be APPALLED that you would suggest such a thing and lay the blame on you but this isn’t to confirm his self-image (because he doesn’t doubt that at all). Rather, it’s to break down YOUR self-image so that he can get away with more and more.

Anyway, we’ll have to agree to disagree on this one, girl. Narcs are very shrewd individuals and they can make all of this confusing but to me it isn’t confusing at all. Narcissists are simply defective human product and since this product is completely un-fixable (again, because they LIKE THEMSELVES JUST THE WAY THAT THEY ARE), it’s best to stay away or get away. A narc with low self-esteem? No way….

Zari xo

I love most of what you write. I’ve bought your books and gleaned many insights into my ex that were eye opening and therapeutic. THANK YOU!!!

But I’m going to disagree with your theory on how narcissist has but one true cause that rules his life and that is to see what he can get away with. It does not apply to all narcissists.

My narc is a very intelligent, hard working and high functioning man. And his life is not ruled by what he can get away with. Actually that would offend him because it would not fit in with the grandiose image he has of himself. He doesn’t have to get away with things. He CONTROLS everything.

My narcissist husband (and other narcissists I’ve known) has one thing that rules everything in his life: A extremely fragile sense of Self-Esteem. Because any little criticism has the potential to destroy him emotionally, he can’t take the chance that anyone or anything challenges his grandiose self-image. So the focus in his life has been to surround himself with people (especially women) who share this exalted view he has of himself. Basically he needs to be admired and adored unconditionally and continually.

When looking at his behavior through these glasses, every horrible thing he had ever done to me, I can tie directly back questioning his perfection in some way. Silent treatments, rages, devaluing are all ways he’s tried to discredit my negative perception of him. And it worked for a long time because I’d always apologize, therefore affirming his positive image of himself. That’s why nothing is ever his fault. He can’t handle it.

Of course all this ties back to a lot of emotional and verbal abuse he endured as a child. But this doesn’t excuse his behavior. It just explains it.

Narcissists are NOT relationship material. They are incapable of it. And that’s very sad.

I don’t want to use your real first name so you are now Vickie! Yes, this guy is a piece of work. I do want you to know that I speak with people all over the world and those who have been married or involved for 30, even 40 years do find their way out of it. I know that your situation is tricky with you being a caregiver but I wish you could leave him and live a peaceful life. The investigating will make you insane and he will never admit to anything. You need to remain calm because any emotional outburst will be used against you. He doesn’t have a connection to God and never did and this is why he can lie to the pastor. I guarantee his extracurricular activities have been going ton a very long time. As you said, it must feel as if you had to get an STD in order for you to believe it was even happening! I agree with you on that! The covert narcissists are the worst of the worst.

Think about a way out if possible. And I would stop discussing it with the kids PRONTO because, in these cases, it is the parent who doesn’t talk about what’s happening that gets the sympathy. Let him talk himself into a parental grave with his smear campaign. He will never ever change and eventually, the children will see the truth.

I know this is all a shock but what he is doing has been going on a long time. There is a reason your eyes have been opened. The Universe felt it was time that you know so you can save the rest of your life. YOU have done nothing wrong and you deserve to be happy!

Stay strong, sister….

Zari xo

I will reply under Part 2 and I’m going to change your name to Vickie.

So after husband given me std after 30 years married…….we have 3 grown children living in different states, but being a Mom was the best most important thing I ever did, not even working outside the home for 16 years , but concentrating on raising them the best I could, as I wasn’t that lucky and had a terrible abusive childhood, leading me to 12 years of intensive therapy and overcoming major depressive disorder…..so I had a good relationship with my 3 grown children, the oldest a boy, younger 2 girls, with my youngest daughter being mother of my granddaughter that I’m raising….
While my husband and I are suddenly having these problems regarding him giving me std……our middle daughter and family come for visit from Canada, so I warn her that her dad gave me std and may be getting divorced, but she wanted to visit so we could see her twin boys, 21 months old. Requesting we just keep our drama to ourselfs and not involve her , especially as she had always been a daddys girl.
But actually after learning about Narcissists, I found out that how he had always treated older daughter with favor over younger one, of which I had pointed out to my husband as very harmful , and when youngest daughter was on!y 8 told him if he didn’t stop I feared she would end up pregnant ……and sure enough she was at age 15, and now I’m raising her daughter! This always troubled me,…..and now I learn that Narcs make one child the golden child, and the other the ” scapegoat”…..wow that explains what I couldn’t make sense out of!
2 of my 3 grown children were here visiting just as I’m discovering that I may not even know who the man I’ve been married to for more than half of my life, even is! I am a codependent, and empath, so I feel feelings very deeply and try as I may to hold them in and hide them, sometimes I don’t succeed as well as I would like…..
Then add that I’m uncovering things about my husband that no one who knows him would ever believe, as I know I didn’t and didn’t want to!! He is fighting every way he can to prevent me from telling anyone, which to me are only the actions of a guilty man , as an innocent person simply proves their innocence! He was preventing my emails from sending out the proof I was finding off of his own phone! In 30 years I had never looked in his phone, now I was as he had called me the week before and left me a message, but yet it wasn’t his number! I called this number that was only 4 different digits different from our 2 cell phones, ( out of 10 digits) and a woman answered so I hung up! He denied calling me from any other numnber, yet it was right there on my call log. I asked him if he had other numbers, as I know there are apps that can give you other numbers , but he swears he doesnt ! So when I looked in his phone contact list, I see under his name, several other numbers even tho he said he only had 1. He lied! I found more and more proof of things He lied about, so I take pictures of what I find, because Im sure he will delete it..
Not knowing about narcissists yet…..I keep confronting him with all I find, not knowing how dangerous that is to do, as Im such an open and honest, and direct type person. Just 3 days prior, he’s telling me that I’m doing an awesome job, taking care of our big house, pool, and our granddaughter! Suddenly while my kids are here, ( and they don’t know how he’s pushing my buttons and keeping me emotionally upset) he starts telling my kids that he thinks I’m getting depressed again like 15 years earlier, and maybe I’m not capable of caring for our granddaughter, I’m UNSTABLE! WHILE THE WHOLE TIME HE REMAINS completely calm , unemotional, and now I’m looking crazy, so this way no one will ever believe what I’m saying I m finding out he is DOING!

ONE day tired of all he’s controlling on line, ( also after ft. Worth backpage escorts are showing up in his stuff, showing me he is even going to escorts while home visiting me! Really?…..) Some nerve!
I go and do something that makes me look crazy, I cut his internet cords……he attacks me, throwing me to the floor! Although my daughter witnesses this, she gathers her family and leaves as her dad also leaves! Never tells me goodbye, and returned to Canada. Puts on Facebook that her Mom is imagining things, and needs help….my heart is broken, as somehow he has turned all 3 of my kids away from me, they didnt call on my birthday or for Thanksgiving and aren’t speaking to me for first time ever! He swears he did not do a thing! That they each had their own problems with me prior to this, but that is not true as they were all just fine with me before my husband started smear campaign against me…..also he claims he did not throw me to floor, but that I “CRUMPLED”…… OH my gosh, he clearly slammed me hard and I don’t crumple for anybody. !!! Left scratch marks on my chest too……but he’s so calm and quiet, no one ever sees this side of him, no one would ever believe he could be violent, and he always plays the VICTIM.!!!! doesn’t even care if he looks like a wimp, as I made a call to our pastor while my kids were still here……hubby claimed she told him to call the cops for me cutting cords, I thought that was a bit harsh but when I called her , turns out NONE OF WHAT HE SAID WAS TRUE. She said she told him to when he claimed to her that I HAD ASSAULTED HIM! our whole marriage I have never put my hands on him like that, or for any harm! I just couldn’t even believe that he would or could fabricate such a horrible LIE ! And Lie to the Pastor of our church!.! Wow!

Hi Sam,

Wow…that is the craziest description of a family of narcs I have heard yet. I don’t believe that they can be “bi-polar” because bi-polar is a fairly emotional disorder and they just don’t have the emotion to be that way. I believe that narcissism develops not so much through child abuse but through neglect at a very young age in some way or another. Usually there is one parent that is narcissistic (usually the mother) but to me, even then, it is passed down simply by the behavior of that narcissistic parent to the child and not so much through genetics. Then that child grows up and does it to his or her child, etc. You have to know that in that crazy family, something HAD to be going on at some point for all those boys to turn out so messed up! LOL I just don’t know! Either way, the bottom line is that these creatures are now adults who know right from wrong but simply don’t give a shit. This being true, all we can do is run in the other direction for as long and as far as we can go.

As for your child, be careful about slapping a label on it too soon. All you can do is be the best parent you can be and show a lot of love (no matter how much they may fight it, if they do). I have NEVER known a grown up narcissist who had a loving childhood. Don’t fight about it with your ex because he simply doesn’t care and don’t talk bad about your ex to your son. He WILL grow up knowing who was the better parent and hopefully will follow that lead. Kids will be kids and they are also very moldable so we have to be careful not to project our fears onto our children. Keep a watchful eye and do your best to redirect behaviors without drawing attention to them. Do you know what I mean? It’s really all we can do!

Stay strong,

Zari xo

THIS REALLY HELPS, I AM DEALING WITH A NARC, AND THE INFORMATION ON SILENT TREATMENT (THE CURVE BALL) BROUGHT ME HERE. SHE WOULD NEVER ALLOW TO GET CLOSE BECAUSE SHE IS A NARC, SOCIOPATH, PSYCHOPATH, VERY ATTRACTIVE AND CHARMING AND VERY TOXIC

Whats worse Zari is that one of my children seems to be going down the same path.

He tries to get what he wants from his dad, despite me having said no prior. When it causes a fight between us as I am deathly afraid of bringing up a NARC. I hope you understand Zari, I never want to be the mother of an N.

Much like my mother in law who is a good person, but for some reason cannot do anything about her N son. I dont think she even knows how she made one. I am in the same boat.

When I talk to my son about it, he seems to be so FLAT about it. It is like he doesnt FEEL how much adversity he has directly caused.

I think Narcissism may be genetic or the may run in families sex sensitive. Most if not all the men in my ex husbands family are dysfunctional in a way or 2. There was a cousin who took a sex video of himself and his wife and sent it to an uncle for comments on FB. Then he sent it to his brother, the guy who left because of a placecard (see below).

Then another cousin who when spoken to, would never look you in the eye but seemed to be able to work normally at a job.

And several others who were prone to outbursts. We once had thanksgiving and just because the place card was named to another relative, he took great offense and even before starting the meal, he left in a great huff complaining about not being made important enough because the place card was in another cousins name.

It was a simple matter, to grab the place card from right across if that really bothered him or to just change seats with a family member.

There was another who would ask anyone even strangers in random what color their underwear was. My ex husband did that too to someone at work and thats how he got in trouble with his boss. I was shocked because he NEVER did that to me in the past or to anyone. Even that employee was shocked.

But all the women in his family were very normal. Fun loving, upstanding, dedicated and just normal.

Could they be not only NARCs but BIPOLAR as well? It must be something thats causing these weirdness in general.

Hi Zari

Thank you for your replies! They do help a lot and the work you are doing here is very much appreciated. The comfort you provide with simple replies means so much.

The divorce papers are not even final yet and here he goes all over town with the new girlfriend. Ive gotten so good at spotting potential women and true enough Ive always been right every single time.

There is no one type but his mistresses all look the same or rather share the same features would you believe or not. But its usually the women who have issues of their own such as getting through a painful breakup, or women who need someone at a difficult time in their lives. Or women you take so much selfies and asking to be liked so many times on their FB page just to be called beautiful. My ex husband provides all those validations.

He would always tell me that there are many things not to like about them. The ones he bashed are the ones he gets into relationships with.

His current mistress is 20 years younger than him and he has inserted himself in her life very well so much so that he has left behind all our other friends. It was like he has reinvented himself TOTALLY. He even dresses different from 15 years-20 years before. From all american A&Fitch, he now looks like One Direction down to buttoned up nerd shirts and colorful socks despite being 50 years old LOL. I really do not recognize him literally and quite funny missed him a couple of times in a crowd. It boggles the mind to have lived with a person for so long and suddenly not recognizing them at one glance.

The problem with NC is that we are co parenting and divorce court keeps forcing us back together on certain days for that particular reason. He physically abused me and many other abuses ranging from financial to sexual to emotional. He calls me crazy all the time even outside to people who know us in town.

I am painted as the crazy delusional ex-wife. The thing is I only want closure, thats it. But I do not see not even an ounce of remorse. I know he is a NARC but it hurts just the same.

I cannot do NC because the world just wont let me. I have to deal with the jerk all the time and what’s worse is that I cannot even discipline our child without him calling me out to social services for maltreatment. Honest to goodness I do not hit our children and I do not call them names, but all moms do yell at children especially with teenagers that drive you crazy LOL.

It really is VERY puzzling as he seems to really look like it and think that him battering me doesnt seem to have happened in his mind. Rather he seems to have projected that fear unto me that I would do the same to our children. Or maybe he thinks, I was the one battering all these years.

I pity the new girlfriend and counting the days when she will finally realize it. I once told her since we met at the supermarket quite by accident living in the same town and all that she should really rethink being with him. Very calmly and with a flat poker face (she was super nice btw) she lied through her teeth despite all the friends that knew them being together. Besides I saw them too several times and when I mentioned it very casually and in a friendly civil tone, she just had to lie just like that with no ounce of hesitation at all. It is a small town after all. I think these 2 are made for each other as she lies without even blinking an eye despite being caught in the act.

I remember long ago when my ex husband also compelled me to lie on his behalf for work mostly with his boss. I knew it was wrong but I was also protecting him in a weird way from getting into trouble thinking I could change him. I covered up for him in so many things and just like that made up so many white lies just to keep him from getting fired thinking I was doing it for my family then. And I remember how easily those lies came to me because there was a higher purpose to them. I am ashamed of those as I am a very honest person to a fault but for some reason, I lost my conscience when it came to lying on his behalf/our behalf during the time we were together.

Sometimes I think I just wasted my time trying to stop other women from suffering as much as I did as well as protecting them from the mess we are in with the divorce and all. She does love to be pose on FB and would take polls how many people would call her beautiful. She also models by herself despite being very short at 5 ft.

So I wonder if finally my ex husband has met another NARC to have a happy ending with. I wish for that final signature on those papers so I wont have to put up with seeing him or her.

I wonder if when 2 NARCS end up together, will that marriage last? If that happens, definitely I will INDEED look like the crazy ex wife who made up everything. That is what he keeps telling everyone that we had to divorce because he could not put up with me.

The funniest thing was that I saw her at the bookshop reading up on a Narcissist book for some reason. She probably thinks I am the narcissist SHEESH…

Sam wrote…I realized he really did not care at all to even check or ask around or even remember properly. He just wanted immediate gratification much like a small child who has to just say whatever just to have something to say so as not to get caught in the act so to speak.

Hi Sam,

You answered your own question as to the “Why would…” or “What type of…”. These people are in no way normal and therefore will never have a logical response to any predicament including how to won someone back properly. Bastards…every one of them…and your example shows how ridiculous they really are.

Thanks for sharing!

Zari:)

Hi Sam,

Wow….yes, you’re guy followed the typical narc pattern of “lying even when the truth is a better story”, didn’t he? The masturbating during World of Warcraft – holy crap, that’s crazy, but there is ALWAYS something sexually deviant lurking in the background with every single one of these jerks. I would consider that deviant!

As for why it’s all the same across the planet, this is why, I suppose, it’s considered a “disorder”. While I understand what you mean by the cold comparison, I’d have to add to that by saying that its more like this person actually had a cold the entire time but was very good at hiding it. Know what I mean? It doesn’t come on gradually to them, only to us because we can’t even wrap our heads around what we’re seeing. We look the other way for a long time.

But the lying…My God…mine did the same thing. I’ve written about in several posts here…especially about how he lied about every little thing and how it made me insane. I like the way you call it an aversion to the truth and while I agree with that, again I have to add to it by saying that for a narc, everyday, all day, it’s all about what they can get away with and lying is the easiest way to hone their skills. I feel that it’s easier for them to simply lie about everything than to have to come up with big lies every once in a while. This also keeps us confused as to what is true and what is false. It keeps us off balance and this is the intention.

Yikes – that World of Warcraft thing has put a visual in my head! LOLOLOL These guys are SO creepy, aren’t they??? Stay strong, girl!

Zari xo

He would greet his mom on the wrong day, same things with his family members for some reason. I think he did it on purpose because he had no trouble remembering when it came to his women or the men he was doing business with.

After leaving him for good, he suddenly greeted me for my birthday thinking it would get him back in my good graces or maybe at least catch my attention after NO CONTACT. You know what the funny thing is?
It wasnt even my birthday until a whole damn month later. What was worse was that he totally had no clue that he was wrong.

What normal guy would try to make amends with someone who is mad at you by remembering special dates on the wrong day?

Its common sense that to appease someone mad at you, you would go out of your way to research and MAKE SURE that he would be doing things on the right day that he would be getting stuff she would SURELY want.

I realized he really did not care at all to even check or ask around or even remember properly. He just wanted immediate gratification much like a small child who has to just say whatever just to have something to say so as not to get caught in the act so to speak.

Its been a while since I read up on your posts and everytime I do, I realize truths about the Narc. In my own time, my own pace of getting over my past, I come to terms with the WHYS and HOWS little by little. And when I do read up on your posts, your thoughts are right on! How amazing is that. That means indeed that my suspicions are right and the doctors were right too.

My ex husband is way up there on the Narcissism scale. Each and every single things I have read about Narcs, he has shown on many instances. He ticks off each and every box. All the things different women say their Narcs did, he has done it too in almost textbook fashion.

Why then Zari do you think that its almost clinical in nature, that the recipe for a NArc is exactly the same no matter race culture or age? It like having a cold that begins with a sore throat then hoarseness, then so on so forth. Every person who gets a cold has to go through the same symptoms.

My ex husband used to lie about every little thing. Things that normal people do not see the need to lie about. Even when he was doing nothing wrong, he had to lie about it.

For example. Once we went to watch a play together on a holiday. Work was off for the day so the office was not calling. And bosses DO expect that you are out enjoying your day. Friends and family too expect that of any holiday.

We were walking then his mom calls and asks us where we were. A normal person would answer “oh we just watched a play”. I saw it with my own two eyes, that he went into this long winded blatant lie. He made up an entire story where we were. I asked him after he put the the phone, why he had to lie, whats the point?

And he goes, I hate people who ask where I am. ????

He would even feel the need to lie about what he ate for lunch. I mean no one is judging him. Its a perfectly normal friendly question but he just had an aversion to the truth,

Only later did I learn that this habit extends to women, to work, to everything he is. If he says about a woman that they are just friends, I bet you it would be a full blown affair. If he says I only played videogames for about an hour, he played for an entire day and night. Worse thing was that he would masturbate while playing World of Warcraft for example.

He would masturbate out of excitement of pretending to be someone he is not.

Ms. Dori wrote… Being alone doesn’t necessarily mean lonely, it’s just a case of not willing to settle for another N.

Hi Ms. Dori,

Thank you for sharing your story AND you’re wisdom. We’re absolutely NEVER too old to learn and to have the happy life that we deserve. Your words above are all that needs to be said.

Stay strong, sister!

Zari xo

Hi Same Boat,

Don’t do it, girl! It appears that Christmas came and went for many people who write here but the narcissists were ON IT for New Years. Even I got a greeting! Yup, that’s right…Wayne The Co-star of When Love Is a Lie sent me a FACEBOOK message AND a FRIEND REQUEST. I had blocked the email of the FB page that he had when we were together but he apparently has another and, yes, he sent me a friend request (SURE, I’LL GET RIGHT ON THAT) along with a message that says “Happy New Year to you and…” I assume the next word was “Sky”, my son, but I couldn’t read the rest of it unless I clicked on it which of course I didn’t. Is that insanity or what? It’s not like he doesn’t know about the book!! And you and I aren’t alone….soooo many narcs got a new year message through…it must have been the “thing” this year.

Good God….ignore, ignore, ignore, delete, delete, block, block, block,,,,,

Zari xo

Elena wrote…One day, I truly hope to meet a non-asshole. For now, a great dog, your site, and a glass of wine will have to do! As time passes, I’m starting to think that’s all we need! LOL

You know, if it was all about attention, then you think the asshole would be happy with the love we pour all over him but nooooooooooooooooo. It’s definitely not about attention we give when we’re feeling good because when we’re feeling good, HE’S not in control. But then, when we’re upset and giving him attention, he’s tells us we’re pathetic. Keep in mind that it’s a pathological relationship agenda that he lives by where our suffering is his reward for a job well done.

So, my conclusion? I think it all boils down to his pathetic need for control over everything and his false sense of entitlement to do what he wants, when he wants, with whoever he wants, and at anyone’s expense. Yup, I think that’s it. What say you?

Zari xo

I spend too much time thinking about these assholes Zari. One day, I truly hope to meet a non-asshole. For now, a great dog, your site, and a glass of wine will have to do!

Thanks, Sharon…I’m glad your here!

Zari xo

Love this site!!!